Before Abraham Existed I AM

[popsthebuilder]

show from John 1:1, that Jesus Christ is not COEQUAL to God the Father!

The Word and Spirit are GOD. The Word became flesh.

Tell me please; if a thing changes from one thing and becomes another; is it still also what it changed from?

Maybe try using the whole bible as opposed to singular verses removed from context. Try responding to my questions too please. It will help to conversate profitably as opposed to talking around one another.

The flesh profits nothing. As flesh; not GOD almighty. Why do you think the man Jesus asked GOD to give Him back the glory He had with GOD almighty before the formation of the world? I think it was because as man, He didn't have that glory; He gave it up and humbled self, not thinking equality with GOD, a thing to grasp or proclaim.

One in Spirit.

So is Christ GOD or is the body of Christ GOD? Really easy to discern what is truth if we consider the whole of the bible as a guidance.

I guess you can't refute anything I said using in context, scripture or you would have.

 

[7thMoon]

Firstly, there is no HE in the Greek text, and it can only read I AM (ἐγὼ εἰμί), as in I Always Exist, as the Greek verb, εἰμί , is in the present, continuance.

Secondly, AB Davidson was a Liberal theologian, so his bias is always there! His Hebrew for Exodus 3:14 reflects this bias.

Thirdly, you say "I will be", but surely, it is the continued presense of Yahweh with the Children of Isarel, that is their assurance, and not something in the future? I have shown in the OP, where the Hebrew “’ehyeh”, is used in the Old Testament, as the PRESENT tense. If the Hebrew did mean "I will be", then there would have been no reason for Aquila and Theodotion, in the 2nd century, who were opponents of Christians, to translate in Greek, “εσομαι (ὃς) εσομαι”, using the future? They also perverted, for theological reasons, Isaiah 7:14, where the LXX reads, "παρθένος", by using "νεᾶνις" (young woman).

Fourthly, the LXX was the work of the best Hebrew scholars at the time, so there can be no doubt that it is an excellent work.

Firstly, when someone says I am, there is always the implication of what someone is. He was what? The light of the world perhaps?

Thirdly, Why is Theodotian wrong; he was not an opponent of Xianity. Besides, the name YHWH is made from 2 causative verbs not used in the OT.

Fourth, the LXX has many variants now. Thus you overstate your case.

 

[CherubRam]

show from John 1:1, that Jesus Christ is not COEQUAL to God the Father!

John 1:1

Greek:
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (Word) en (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one and only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (Divine) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the (one or only) Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.

The defining article "a" must be supplied for the English language, to define that there is another Divine that is not the "Divine Eternal."

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?

 

[CherubRam]

do you think that you know better than the Jews themselves?

"And the Lord said unto Mosheh, He who spake, and the world was; who spake, and all things were. And He said, This thou shalt say to the sons of Israel, I AM HE WHO IS, AND WHO WILL BE, hath sent me unto you"

Targum Jonathan on Exodus 3:14

And the Lord said unto Mosheh, He who spake, and the world was; who spake, and all things were. And He said, This thou shalt say to the sons of Israel, I AM...

www.sefaria.org

"And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you."

Exodus 3 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?” (Elohiym means, “God of The Living.”) It can also be translated as “god-s of the living” or “god-s of life;” for those who have life immortal.
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.” (HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.)
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”



Yahwah means “Life Began.”

 

[ICHTHUS]

John 1:1

Greek:
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (Word) en (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one and only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (Divine) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the (one or only) Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.

The defining article "a" must be supplied for the English language, to define that there is another Divine that is not the "Divine Eternal."

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?

what you have written is typical of someone who knows no Greek grammar, and who turns to an interlinear Bible, and Strong's Concordance dictionary, etc.

John 1:1, "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος"

When we have a preposition in the Greek, as we do here, "Ἐν", before a word, like "ἀρχῇ", there is no need to use the definite article, τῇ, here, and it will still be definite, and read, "In the beginning", as almost all of the English Versions will read.

Again, your lack of Greek is clear, Θεόν, here is in the accusative case in the Greek, for which the accusative form of the article, τὸν, is used. When Θεὸς is used, which is in the nominative case, the nominative atricle ὁ is used.

Grammatically in the Greek, and contextually, it can only read, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was in the presence of God, and the Word was God".

The Greek ἦν, is used which is in the imperfect, because it means that Jesus Christ has eternally existed with the Father, and eternally is God, as the Father is God.

 

[ICHTHUS]

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?” (Elohiym means, “God of The Living.”) It can also be translated as “god-s of the living” or “god-s of life;” for those who have life immortal.
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.” (HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.)
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”



Yahwah means “Life Began.”

Read verse 2, and you will see the Person Who appeared to Moses in the Burning Bush, "And the Angel of Yahweh (Malakh YHWH, One sent by Yahweh) appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the middle of a bush". Then, in verse 4, this same "Angel", is called, "And when Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, Elohim called to him out of the middle of the bush". This passage is about "Malakh YHWH", Who later identifies Himself to Moses as, "’Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh", literally, "I AM WHO I AM". the Eternal God.

 

[ICHTHUS]

Firstly, when someone says I am, there is always the implication of what someone is. He was what? The light of the world perhaps?

Thirdly, Why is Theodotian wrong; he was not an opponent of Xianity. Besides, the name YHWH is made from 2 causative verbs not used in the OT.

Fourth, the LXX has many variants now. Thus you overstate your case.

Jesus says in John 8:24, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that ἐγώ εἰμι, you shall die in your sins"

Jesus does not mean here, "I am the Messiah", otherwise He would have said, "ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ Χριστός", which He does not. What Jesus says here, is exactly what He says in verse 58, which is reference to Exodus 3:14.

When, in Matthew 14:27 Jesus assures the Disciples, He says, "But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Be of good cheer! It is I; do not be afraid.”. The Greek is much stronger, "be of good cheer, ἐγώ εἰμι I AM" Again, that Majestic Name of Almighty God, which was an assurance to these fearful Disciples.

Jesus says, that if anyone does not believe that He is YHWH, then they will die in their sins, and end up in eternal punishment!

 

[7thMoon]

Jesus says in John 8:24, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that ἐγώ εἰμι, you shall die in your sins"

Jesus does not mean here, "I am the Messiah", otherwise He would have said, "ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ Χριστός", which He does not. What Jesus says here, is exactly what He says in verse 58, which is reference to Exodus 3:14.

When, in Matthew 14:27 Jesus assures the Disciples, He says, "But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Be of good cheer! It is I; do not be afraid.”. The Greek is much stronger, "be of good cheer, ἐγώ εἰμι I AM" Again, that Majestic Name of Almighty God, which was an assurance to these fearful Disciples.

Jesus says, that if anyone does not believe that He is YHWH, then they will die in their sins, and end up in eternal punishment!

I am what I am if I were Popeye the sailorman.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again ICHTHUS,

Firstly, there is no HE in the Greek text, and it can only read I AM (ἐγὼ εἰμί), as in I Always Exist, as the Greek verb, εἰμί , is in the present, continuance.

A brief answer due to present commitments as there is more that could be said both here and concerning the additional posts. The same Greek term is translated "I am he" in John 4:26, 8:24, 8:28 for Christ, and John 9:9 for the blind man and hence the "he" is supplied to make better sense of the Greek in the English translation. It is only a misunderstanding of John 8:58 and a Trinitarian bias that prefers "I AM" in John 8:58 and sometimes tries to impose it on John 8:24, but is rarely bold enough to demand it for John 8:28 where Jesus speaks clearly about his dependence upon his Father and is NOT claiming to be Deity. Jesus is using the same words in the same context.

Secondly, AB Davidson was a Liberal theologian, so his bias is always there! His Hebrew for Exodus 3:14 reflects this bias. Thirdly, you say "I will be", but surely, it is the continued presence of Yahweh with the Children of Israel, that is their assurance, and not something in the future?

AB Davidson was a recognised Hebrew scholar and his explanation and endorsement of "I will be" is important. He speaks about the Yahweh Name as speaking about what God would accomplish, not the fact of his existence. Exodus 3:12 and Exodus 6:1-8 confirms the future tense. Exodus 3:6 speaks about his existence and the present tense.

Fourthly, the LXX was the work of the best Hebrew scholars at the time, so there can be no doubt that it is an excellent work.

The LXX is mixed quality, and no English translation of the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14 comes close to the LXX. The LXX does not say "I AM" as the Name of God, but "The Being" and "I am the Being".

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[7thMoon]

John 1:1

Greek:
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (Word) en (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one and only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (Divine) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the (one or only) Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.

The defining article "a" must be supplied for the English language, to define that there is another Divine that is not the "Divine Eternal."

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?

At least my rendering made sense.

 

[QuestionIt]

Same old same old, with Triinies having to delve in the Greek to find excuses for what God's name is!

 

[ICHTHUS]

Same old same old, with Triinies having to delve in the Greek to find excuses for what God's name is!

View attachment 656

Jehovah is a FALSE name as the Hebrew is literally translated into English by Yahweh