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Why works for hire will fail to earn you salvation.

G

Grace Accepted

Guest
The Bible tends to be an anvil upon which we may pound and pound for years and never leave a dent in it. The truth that is in its pages must be understood over years of study with the indwelling of God's holy spirit. There are a few premises that need to be kept in mind when we open its pages. The foremost is that every text is important and reveals something to us about God and His Plan of Salvation. We will not understand every text at once because some text require years of experience and study along with the Holy Spirit to understand.

We should never leave sections of scripture in conflict with one another in our minds because all of scripture harmonizes; it is our own observations and interpretations that are dissonant. God our Father is interested and totally invested in our salvation and that is what the Bible is all about. Let's start with the foundational principle of our Father's salvation for us. It is found in Ephesians 2 verses 5 through 10.

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

This is the foundation of salvation for us all and every other texts in the Bible will be viewed through this foundational truth. Break this down in steps.
  1. because of his great love for us
  2. [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
  3. God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms
  4. in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace,
  5. it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
  6. not by works,
  7. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
One of the first things that jumps out at me is the fact that we are not saved by good works, but instead, we are saved for good works. We were dead to God and that means we had no discourse with God, we could not hear, see, touch, taste or feel Him. This would mean we had as much free will as any dead person has: none. We only have free will when the son makes us free.

Now there are some who will trot out texts that say things like Acts 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Is this a contradiction in scripture? I would say emphatically know. Here we see the calling being made to those whom Christ has made alive because no spiritually dead man would respond to such an invitation since it would be foolishness to him. 1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. The message of the cross is foolishness to the majority of spiritual people on this earth. Works makes since to them but not grace. Grace can only be understood by those whom Christ has made alive with His life and have accepted his life in place of their own.

We are seated with Christ in heavenly places not of ourselves in any way least we should boast. Most people think of boasting as going around bragging, but simply believing that you conjured up your own belief and made wiser decisions than the heathen, that you made a good choice from an evil heart is boasting. The truth is, we can only bow our heads and weep in contrition at the feet of the one who made us alive with His own life because He wanted to demonstrate the incomparable riches of His Grace because of His great love for us.

We insult God when we try to bring our fishy crackers to His wedding feast to earn a spot at the table.

​

 
Your Calvinism is showing.

Grace Accepted said:
One of the first things that jumps out at me is the fact that we are not saved by good works, but instead, we are saved for good works.
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Agreed.

Grace Accepted said:
We were dead to God and that means we had no discourse with God, we could not hear, see, touch, taste or feel Him.
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That's not true. Paul is addressing Christians. Christians are the ones that have been raised up with Christ. They are raised up with Christ and seated in the heavenlies when they choose to believe the gospel, something anyone has the capacity to do.

Grace Accepted said:
This would mean we had as much free will as any dead person has: none. We only have free will when the son makes us free.
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No. People have the free will, and the capacity, to choose to believe the gospel before they get saved. That's how people GET saved, GET raised up with Christ, by choosing to believe the gospel.

Grace Accepted said:
Now there are some who will trot out texts that say things like Acts 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Is this a contradiction in scripture? I would say emphatically know. Here we see the calling being made to those whom Christ has made alive because no spiritually dead man would respond to such an invitation since it would be foolishness to him.
Click to expand...
This is false too because of the same reason. You're adding your Calvinism into the text. The jailer was not made alive in Christ before he decided to believe.

Grace Accepted said:
1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Click to expand...
Those who are perishing are those who do not believe. They could... but they don't.

Grace Accepted said:
The message of the cross is foolishness to the majority of spiritual people on this earth.
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Define "spiritual people."

Grace Accepted said:
Works makes since to them but not grace. Grace can only be understood by those whom Christ has made alive with His life and have accepted his life in place of their own.
Click to expand...
Again, those who are made alive in Christ are those who choose to believe. People are not made alive in Christ until they decide to believe.

Grace Accepted said:
We are seated with Christ in heavenly places not of ourselves in any way least we should boast. Most people think of boasting as going around bragging, but simply believing that you conjured up your own belief and made wiser decisions than the heathen, that you made a good choice from an evil heart is boasting.
Click to expand...
Believing is not "conjured up." Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Grace Accepted said:
The truth is, we can only bow our heads and weep in contrition at the feet of the one who made us alive with His own life because He wanted to demonstrate the incomparable riches of His Grace because of His great love for us.
Click to expand...
Sounds nice and religious... but anyone has the capacity to believe the gospel. We preach the gospel to give people a change to hear it. It's up to them whether they want to believe it or not. When they choose to believe it, THEN they are made alive with Christ (born again) and seated in the heavenlies.
 
shroom said:
Your Calvinism is showing.


Agreed.


That's not true. Paul is addressing Christians. Christians are the ones that have been raised up with Christ. They are raised up with Christ and seated in the heavenlies when they choose to believe the gospel, something anyone has the capacity to do.


No. People have the free will, and the capacity, to choose to believe the gospel before they get saved. That's how people GET saved, GET raised up with Christ, by choosing to believe the gospel.


This is false too because of the same reason. You're adding your Calvinism into the text. The jailer was not made alive in Christ before he decided to believe.


Those who are perishing are those who do not believe. They could... but they don't.


Define "spiritual people."


Again, those who are made alive in Christ are those who choose to believe. People are not made alive in Christ until they decide to believe.


Believing is not "conjured up." Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Sounds nice and religious... but anyone has the capacity to believe the gospel. We preach the gospel to give people a change to hear it. It's up to them whether they want to believe it or not. When they choose to believe it, THEN they are made alive with Christ (born again) and seated in the heavenlies.
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Ok, this is you simply disagreeing with a supported premise. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
 
I guess this gets me James 2:22

This is about justification through works. I don't know if you learn anything from me, but I hope this helps.
 
Grace Accepted said:
Ok, this is you simply disagreeing with a supported premise. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
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You haven't paid any attention to scriptures before. Would you now?
 
shroom said:
You haven't paid any attention to scriptures before. Would you now?
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I don't think you read enough of what he says. I don't read everything either, but I do know enough to concentrate on what I think he is emphatic about.
 
7thMoon said:
I guess this gets me James 2:22

This is about justification through works. I don't know if you learn anything from me, but I hope this helps.
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I enjoy your posts because they are so different. I must confess, I don't always understand them but they are usually never the run-of-the mill. As for this text I don't see how you are taking a text that describes a living faith to mean advocationg works for salvation. James is just restating what Christ implied when He said, "If you abide in me, you will bear much fruit."
 
Grace Accepted said:
One of the first things that jumps out at me is the fact that we are not saved by good works, but instead, we are saved for good works. We were dead to God and that means we had no discourse with God, we could not hear, see, touch, taste or feel Him. This would mean we had as much free will as any dead person has: none. We only have free will when the son makes us free.
Click to expand...

The word faith must be defined as to whose it comes from . A two way street. His working in us and our amen as he empowers us to perform it to His good pleasure

We are saved by the good works of Christ's "work of faith" or called a "labor of his love" .Called the first works in Revelation 2.

Both hearing God as he gives us his understanding of faith and empowered to do His good will . The better thing that acompanies salvation yoked with Him our burden is lighter. .

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Hebrew 11: 6 But without faith (Christ's) it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Him giving us the power of his faith or labor of His love to seek after him who has no form

Yoked with the rewarder (Christ) who performed the good work in us . We then can understand God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love, which you have shewed toward his name

Hebrew 6:9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
 
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