Tithing

[Comingfrom]

I will tackle this now as per your post #6. I must say that I like your systematic follow through on questions you have, though I do not always agree with the conclusions or in the way you relate one thing to another. All I can do, is present my perspective on these verses. And it is true that one thing always connects to another with God, for His view is of the whole picture, from beginning to end. Nevertheless, when He says anything that is in scripture, it has one meaning---His meaning. It may have other, even many, applications---ways in which things relate, or how it can relate to our situation, but only one meaning. Therefore, for me, the most important and first thing is to ascertain what God meant.

Amen to that.
All any of us can do is present the perspective we have [been given?] of the Lord, and of His words.

The book of Malichi was dated around the time of Ezra and Nehemiah, during the restoration of Jerusalem by returning exiles from Babylon. It contains a series of prophetic disputation speeches. A contemporary saying is stated and then refuted by the prophet. They dealt with specific issues of the period in an attempt to restore the Law. Marriage to foreign women, neglect of the tithe, evils of a degenerate priesthood and social sins. On tithing: It was part of the Mosaic law to bring a tenth of the agricultural produce into the house of God, once a year. This was being neglected. The offerings were the portions of the animal sacrifices to which the priests were entitled. His house here refers to the temple. The storehouse was the room in the temple reserved for the storage of gifts so they could be distributed to the priests, Levites, and the poor in the community. This tithing was a mark of the Lord's ownership of the Promised Land (Lev 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deut 14:22-29. The windows of heaven refers to rain (Gen 7: 11-12) that would bring plentiful crops and pasturelands. This is the meaning.

I hear God's word as timeless. Or maybe eternal is the better word.
As in, all of His word applies to all of mankind for all of time.

And I believe, God's house is not a house made with hands.
And Jesus' flesh, the meat of everlasting life, isn't animal flesh and grain.
And His doctrine comes as the rain. There is the former rain and the latter rain.

Some translations say "try" rather than prove. It is a reversal of what is the ordinary Biblical pattern. God typically tests or tries humans. There are only a few instances where humans are invited to test God, in order to prove His claims and justify His commands. The tithe was a covenant obligation that had specific blessings and curses attached to it. In the new covenant we are called to excel in the grace of giving (2 Cor 8:7.) It should move us to greater generosity that the Law ever could. It is not about proving the Lord's existence in this instance but proving that His commands with their cursing's and blessings, stands. And though the principle involved, that of trusting God and generosity in taking care of those in need, still stands, in the new covenant, those in this covenant through faith in Jesus, are not under the curses that existed in the Law.

Thank you. God is a Spirit, and we are told to try the spirits.
Not in just a few instances. Paul said we shall judge angels.
How do we try Him? By bringing meat into our storehouse in His house.
According to Malachi.
(Now try doing that with a deceiving spirit that is claiming to be the Christ, or an Angel.)

And we were just told by Malachi, we are cursed for not tithing and offering to God.
Because that is robbing Him.
(And we know He hates robbery for burnt offering, from Isaiah 61:8.)

Yes we aught be generous in giving, but I thought tithing is about what we bring to God.
Not about our works in the world.
And praying does have a part in the New Covenant.

This "robbing" refers only to the neglect of the tithes and offerings that were commanded, not to actually stealing from God. It cannot mean that because we have Psalm 50: 7-13 that tells us otherwise, followed by Psalm 50:14-15 tells us what He does want from us.

Only?
And not actually stealing from God?

I think you need to read it again.
Because He foretells we will say what you just said.

Not just meat was tithed, but a tenth of all the produce. The meat was the blood shed for forgiveness of sins. A life for a life. Shadowing temporarily the sacrificial, substitutionary, life for life, that was to come in Jesus. IMO there is no direct connection to Malichi as Jesus is not discussing the animal sacrifices but the reasons the crowd was seeking Him, to eat. Jesus simply told them that is of the temporary needs, that the weightier, eternal reasons should be why they seek Him.

So no connection huh.

Tell us then, what is the meat of everlasting life that the Son of man gives,
that Jesus was referring to?

The crowd was seeking Him, to eat?

I think most of them there were wishing He would just go away,
when they heard Him speaking (John 6:66).

The storehouse in Malachai is speaking of an actual room in the temple used to store the tithes and offerings. Will cover the rest later.

So, in those days, everyone had their own storehouse in the temple that was God's house?

Was this the temple in Jerusalem?
Or was there a God's house in every town and suburb?

I am just trying what you say.
Thank you for your offering

 

[Comingfrom]

I don't know why, I thought it would be stating the obvious, that tithing is bringing to God.
Not to a church, or to a tribe of men,
and not for future provisions, or for the needy.
Praying is something separate from our charitable works. Isn't it.
And praying is when we bring unto the Lord. Isn't it?

Obviously, we bring our selves,
to honour and to praise Him, and maybe also, to receive something from Him, a blessing.

But what else do we bring Him?

 

[Comingfrom]

I thought you said your Teacher is Jesus.

Do you need men's help?

It is good to hear what Jesus taught to others too, isn't it?

Who knows? they might have been a better learner than you,
and learnt something you didn't yet.


Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great;
ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's:
and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto Me, and I will hear it.
Deuteronomy 1:17

 

[Arial]

Amen to that.
All any of us can do is present the perspective we have [been given?] of the Lord, and of His words.


I hear God's word as timeless. Or maybe eternal is the better word.
As in, all of His word applies to all of mankind for all of time.

And I believe, God's house is not a house made with hands.
And Jesus' flesh, the meat of everlasting life, isn't animal flesh and grain.
And His doctrine comes as the rain. There is the former rain and the latter rain.


Thank you. God is a Spirit, and we are told to try the spirits.
Not in just a few instances. Paul said we shall judge angels.
How do we try Him? By bringing meat into our storehouse in His house.
According to Malachi.
(Now try doing that with a deceiving spirit that is claiming to be the Christ, or an Angel.)

And we were just told by Malachi, we are cursed for not tithing and offering to God.
Because that is robbing Him.
(And we know He hates robbery for burnt offering, from Isaiah 61:8.)

Yes we aught be generous in giving, but I thought tithing is about what we bring to God.
Not about our works in the world.
And praying does have a part in the New Covenant.


Only?
And not actually stealing from God?

I think you need to read it again.
Because He foretells we will say what you just said.


So no connection huh.

Tell us then, what is the meat of everlasting life that the Son of man gives,
that Jesus was referring to?

The crowd was seeking Him, to eat?

I think most of them there were wishing He would just go away,
when they heard Him speaking (John 6:66).


So, in those days, everyone had their own storehouse in the temple that was God's house?

Was this the temple in Jerusalem?
Or was there a God's house in every town and suburb?

I am just trying what you say.
Thank you for your offering

I think in much of it we are talking past one another. I am presenting an exact meaning of the text within its context----leaving our all metaphorical and application aspects of it. That has to come after we get the meaning or we miss the meaning and some of the application. I may be wrong, but it seems like you never talk outside of metaphor, and certainly I can never discern for sure which is which, if you do speak outside of metaphor. I don't know , when you speak, if you are using something metaphorically or literally.The Bible is spiritual, and it is spiritual food. But there is such a thing as over spiritualizing everything. Somethings are just facts, and some things are just historical facts. Though, as it is all the work of God, even the facts contain within them HIM.

 

[meshak]

It is good to hear what Jesus taught to others too, isn't it?

Who knows? they might have been a better learner than you,
and learnt something you didn't yet.


Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great;
ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's:
and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto Me, and I will hear it.
Deuteronomy 1:17

In the internet?

 

[Comingfrom]

I think in much of it we are talking past one another. I am presenting an exact meaning of the text within its context----leaving our all metaphorical and application aspects of it. That has to come after we get the meaning or we miss the meaning and some of the application. I may be wrong, but it seems like you never talk outside of metaphor, and certainly I can never discern for sure which is which, if you do speak outside of metaphor. I don't know , when you speak, if you are using something metaphorically or literally.The Bible is spiritual, and it is spiritual food. But there is such a thing as over spiritualizing everything. Somethings are just facts, and some things are just historical facts. Though, as it is all the work of God, even the facts contain within them HIM.

Thank you.
I'm hearing what you say, but to me, you are strict about interpreting carnally, where ever you can.

I don't believe the Bible is a history book, or a book of scientific facts.
I believe it is God's truth, and that He is speaking to us of heavenly things.
And it is the story of His children, from His point of view.
If I don't see His words from His heavenly perspective, I don't get His meanings.

For that I had to pluck out my right eye. My worldly perspective.

You may say that is spritualizing, but spirit is just as real as earthly things, to me.

Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you;
but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Luke 10:20

 

[Comingfrom]

In the internet?

Where ever you meet people.

 

[Comingfrom]

I note no response to my question;
What do we bring when we go to make our prayer to the Lord?

And a I gave a clue in the very next post.
It wasn't deliberate, it seemed the appropriate verse to answer meshak's question,
but then I noticed it happened to contain the answer to the question I just asked.

At least, that is one thing that the Lord says to bring to Him.

 

[Arial]

I'm hearing what you say, but to me, you are strict about interpreting carnally, where ever you can.

I interpret the Bible according to what type of literature (writing) it is. That is not carnal. There are historical books in it, wisdom literature, prophetic literature, poetic literature. There is metaphor which should be read metaphorical. Parables read as parables etc. Running in and through it all is consistent, correlating, truth.

I don't believe the Bible is a history book, or a book of scientific facts.
I believe it is God's truth, and that He is speaking to us of heavenly things.
And it is the story of His children, from His point of view.
If I don't see His words from His heavenly perspective, I don't get His meanings.

The Bible is not a history book but it contains historical writings---which are history, and should be interpreted as such as to meaning and content. That does not exclude seeing many other things within it, as the Bible is God revealing Himself to us, and our relationship to Him, and His relationship and communion with us through covenant.

 

[Comingfrom]

Interesting. Now that I have started this thread, I am bumping into connected verses.

Here is St Paul's version of that commandment from Malachi.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 12:1-2

How do I know it is connected?
Both Malachi's saying and Paul's saying here are talking about how to prove God.
Both Malachi and Paul are giving us prayer instruction.
And when God opens the windows of heaven, and pours us out a blessing,
then is our minds transformed and renewed by Him.

 

[Comingfrom]

I interpret the Bible according to what type of literature (writing) it is. That is not carnal. There are historical books in it, wisdom literature, prophetic literature, poetic literature. There is metaphor which should be read metaphorical. Parables read as parables etc. Running in and through it all is consistent, correlating, truth.

The Bible is not a history book but it contains historical writings---which are history, and should be interpreted as such as to meaning and content. That does not exclude seeing many other things within it, as the Bible is God revealing Himself to us, and our relationship to Him, and His relationship and communion with us through covenant.

I know.
And then we are always judging God's words.
And by our own interpretation.

Is He speaking literally here, or spiritually?
Is He speaking to some other children of God there, or is He speaking to all of us?
Is Jesus speaking only to the Pharisees here, or to the Pharisee in all of us?
Is Jesus speaking only to His disciples there, or are we disciples too?

How do we overcome this?

 

[Comingfrom]

Some people, like dear Robert Pate here, God bless Him,
judge God's words so severely that he is left with only about a dozen verses from the Bible which justify his faith,
for his Gospel of God.