Now, back to the subject at hand.
What if? I could be wrong, but it seems to me that this was a thread inviting speculation on things we (as believers) could be wrong about, and totally wrong about, so I'll continue along that path for a moment. I love your attitude here SM. As well as your conclusion- as our friend Hillary once infuriatingly said regarding something she was 100% responsible for-- 'What difference does it make?'
What if that's completely true? That it makes no real difference in the here and now, and little difference in the hereafter.... That would seem a rather fatalistic view, and pretty much the opposite of Jewish and Christian thought alike. The Jews didn't really give that much thought about the future- they really didn't, other than believing that one day they would be resurrected, but most weren't even certain of that. There isn't any evidence that I know of referencing a belief in the afterlife until at least 200 BC. olam ha-ba --the "world to come" doesn't even appear in the Bible as a reward, neither are they aware of any coming punishment-- but the resurrection spoken of in Daniel they take as literal.
Well, according to the scriptures, and much of the history available to me, most of the Jews really didn't believe in God or His instructions. But some did, and it seems those who did, were pretty serious about God bringing them back to life.
Gen. 50:
24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Of course this seems silly that an all powerful God couldn't raise Joseph unless his bones were buried in a certain piece of dirt. But i certainly understand the sentiment. I was determined to be cremated years ago, but have since decided to make it as easy as I could for God to find and raise me, so my wish now, is not to be cremated. LOL. I have even considered a gravestone in hunter orange with solar powered neon lights spelling out the phrase "I'm over here Lord"!! But that might be a bit much.
So then everything they do in this life is to ensure they are pleasing to God primarily to win His favor in this life, here on earth.
Not that different than a young daughter or son, seeking to please their dad, or grand kids seeking to please their grandpa. And what would this world be like if children didn't care enough, or love their dad enough to seek their approval, and be open to learn from them? We have all seen examples of this. And this for humans who are like a vapor in the scope of things. Here today, and gone to morrow. But what if there is an eternity? What would it be like to live with eternal spirits who never learned to honor or respect their parents, or seek approval of others older and wiser that they? I mean, what is the purpose of life if it isn't, certainly in part, to "Learn" how to co-exist?
It seems perfectly reasonable for men to have a chance to "Learn" to humble themselves to an unseen superior power in this life. Especially one whose instructions make them a better human, if followed. (Love God, Love your neighbor) Eternity is a long time.
The Christians are not that different, except that they think about the next life all the time. Yet, in essence they strive to please God here in this life so that they will indeed receive a reward in the next in that same paradise above..... streets paved with gold and all that.
I would disagree with the premise that most "Christians" are striving to please the God of the Bible in this life. I think it's a mistake to judge or quantify the God of the Bible, by the religious traditions or practices of modern day religions. Much in the same way it would be a mistake to judge or quantify the God of the Bible by the religious traditions or practices of the Jews.
In a discussion such as this, where the poster has asked that men bare their true feelings and, as Isaiah says; "And that you not hide thyself from thine own flesh", we should, in my view, acknowledge that much of the instructions from the God of the bible, have been rejected and omitted from modern religions. This practice has been said, by the God of the Bible, to be unpleasing to Him when the Jews did the exact same thing.
So if there is a God, and it is the God of Abraham as defined in the Holy scriptures, then it is only honest to acknowledge that this world's religions are not striving to please Him. If they were, there would be talk of joy and honor to God on this, the Last Day of Unleavened Bread, that this same God instructed His People to observe. But for this world's "Christians", this is just another work day, as it is for non-Christians throughout the world.
That's where we are starting from. We could discuss Islam, and the Muslim belief that there are 40 virgins awaiting-- a whole 'nother paradise reward, but again- only for the faithful and obedient ones in the here and now. But where really do we all get these ideas? Ideas handed down and propped up, embellished perhaps- rarely understated. And--- more importantly-- What if they are all off the rails? What if that's not what it's about?
I truly understand your point here. And I also believe that the religions of this world,
all of them, are truly off the rails and I haven't set foot in one for 30 years now. But I would point something out that reflects what you said earlier "the proof is in the drinking"!
An example would be the Biblical instruction to "forgive others their trespasses". I have been wronged in a few horrible ways, which cost me and my family a great cost which can never be replaced or rectified. Even though there was an apology, I carried hatred and animosity around for many years towards a few individuals because of this grievous wrong. The pain was relived every time something triggered it. Bitter vengeful anger in my heart that grew over time. This influenced so many areas of my life that I recognized, and probably double that in ways i didn't even know. But one day I was studying Scriptures about forgiveness, and noticed I was avoiding my own resentment. Hiding from it if you will. It was then that I realized I was harboring resentment because I wanted it. It was precious to me. I fed it, nourished it because something in me wanted a reason to hate. I then remembered the Word's of Jesus;
Jn. 3:
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (My hatred for someone who apologized to me was the Evil)
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
I didn't want to hear about Forgiveness, these people didn't deserve it in my mind. I actually tried to hide from my own hatred.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I was a hypocrite of hypocrites. And worse, I tried to preserve my hypocrisy.
But something in me pushed me to confront and deal with this evil. It took some time, but i was able to forgive, I mean, really forgive these people. I got over it, and can tell you the difference it made, the load off my back, was a surprise I will never forget. Now I know why the God of the Bible teaches forgiveness. It's not about the other guy, It was 100% for me. But it wasn't until I confronted and strove to please God in His instruction, that I understood it. In other word's "the Proof was in the Drinking".
I have found the same to be true regarding God's Sabbaths, instructions regarding what is clean and not clean, Holy and unholy, righteous and unrighteous, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I am still a man, and I still love darkness. But I want to please my Father because I believe HE is smarter than me, even on paper, and will come to Him and His Word to expose the darkness I know exists, and I naturally hide, so we can destroy it together.
As a result, I'm a lifer Mr. E. Right or wrong, true or false, live or die. In my pathetic human understanding, I will still place my trust in "This God". As i understand Paul also believed.
Rom. 7:
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Great questions and topic. I know I kind of diverted away from the foundation of your point. They are perfectly valid questions, and ones I have asked myself.
