The Uncomfortable Question:Is God Really A Tyrant?

[freelight]

The torment of hell is endless but they receive it by their sinning the unforgivable sin, not because HE tyrannically orders it to be eternal...

They can't be forgiven because:
- they made the decision to rebel against GOD's claims to Deity by their free will and a free will decision cannot be changed by anyone unless the person asks for it to be changed by an outside power..

- Once they rebelled they became enslaved by the addictive power of evil which destroyed their ability to seek true repentance. They were instantly and totally unable to repent of their evil and became committed fully to the belief they were right to rebel against this upstart liar and false god.

Their free will choice to rebuke HIM as a liar and a false god put themselves outside of HIS grace and mercy forever by repudiating HIM as their saviour and their addiction to evil rendered themselves to be totally incapable of ever changing their minds about HIM or seeking repentance.

These are the natural, not judicial, consequences HE warned them about but they knew better, eh?

I lean towards the logic and reason that any soul as long as they still have the ability, capacity to repent and turn to 'God', to love.....CAN still be SAVED and choose the way of life, accepting full forgiveness for themselves in all areas essential for their full enjoyment and union with God Source, as long as their free will can still accept the divine will. God's LOVE is INFINITE. We could not assume to prescribe or circumscribe that love, except what we might assume by our own limited ability to presume by whatever measure, but our assessment is not infinite as God's LOVE is.

In any case, we could argue the forensics and mechanics involved in the soul's relationship to 'God' and the extents and limits of the human free will in the light of divine providence, a most wonderful subject. I'll continue to hold to God's love as pure, absolute and infinite, all-inclusive and all powerful by its nature and will, as long as that love by its presence and nature continues to BE what LOVE actually IS, and all that it can continue to POTENTIALLY do, because 'God' is omnipresent.

While we have free will and the law of karma takes its toll on all souls pending what they sow, per seedtime and harvest, I still lean towards the glory and infinitude of God's love and grace to save, so I lean towards universalism in that sense, and secondly to 'conditional immortality' at least, if we hone in on the aspect of free will, 'God' giving every soul the final choice to choose either life or death at some ultimate time of choosing, where such choosing becomes final, to seal one's integration into LIFE or his dis-integration to become terminated or non-existence, which is what final soul-death would be (annihilation, extinction). In any case, nothing could be so vile and degrading as ECT (eternal conscious torment) as taught by some bible thumpers who proffer their own interpretations upon a few passages and make a whole doctrine of it!

It is the Father's good pleasure to give his kingdom to those who do choose to enter in, yes.....for those who do not, God's LOVE is still there no matter what one believes about its proficiency to still woo and save a wayward soul. I cant help but see Loves infinity and purity, and God's omnipresence thru-out! Love being all in all. This view alone IMO, gives 'God' all the glory.


---------o

 

[meshak]

• 
  General Discussion
• Theology

The Uncomfortable Question:Is God Really A Tyrant?​

that's what atheists claims.

 

[Ted T]

I lean towards the logic and reason that any soul as long as they still have the ability, capacity to repent and turn to 'God', to love.....CAN still be SAVED and choose the way of life, accepting full forgiveness for themselves in all areas essential for their full enjoyment and union with God Source, as long as their free will can still accept the divine will.

How have you resolved the meaning of enslaved to sin and unforgivable sin, then? Or merely ignored them? Or perhaps HE loves those whom HE can't, won't, forgive?

God's LOVE is INFINITE.

Infinite love implies that if someone exists then he is the beloved of GOD...

Ps 5:5 The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all workers of iniquity.
HATE:
Strong's 8130: sane: to hate
Original Word: שָׂנֵא
Definition: to hate

Psalm 11:5
The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked; His soul hates the lover of violence.

Rom 9:13 So it is written: “Jacob l loved, but Esau I hated.”
HATE:
Strong's 3404; miseó: to hate
Original Word: μισέω
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.

And in case you think someone else other than GOD Who hated Esau, Romans 9:13 refers to Malachi 1:2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have You loved us?” “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob; 3 but I have HATED Esau...

So we have it in both the two languages of the Bible and they agree that the LORD our GOD hates some folk, a denial of a universal infinite loving nature. The stated fact that HE hates the workers of iniquity does not negate the probability that HE loved them before they worked iniquity by which they broke HIS love and put themselves into the category of people HE hates.

 

[freelight]

How have you resolved the meaning of enslaved to sin and unforgivable sin, then? Or merely ignored them? Or perhaps HE loves those whom HE can't, won't, forgive?

Those are catagories with their own varying assumptions. 'Enslaved to sin'? - well, if a soul is enslaved to sin he will keep reaping what he sows, as any other of course,....but as long as a soul CAN repent, he can change. That seems pretty obvious and logical, if he still has the response-ability to choose LOVE and LIFE. - 'unforgivable sin'? - well, another assumption depending on how you define terms. Thats a whole nother subject. All sins that are forgivable, CAN be forgiven, so in that pathway, salvation is ALWAYS possible. - in all space and time however, he who calls upon the name of 'God' can be delivered,...so I'll continue to recognize that 'amazing grace'. As far as those who may be completely taken over by iniquity and are beyond HELP or reform,....they may undergo a final and permanent 'death' (disintegration, extinction, termination)....the second death...being absorbed back into the OverSoul of creation. - thats also another subject. The infinity of divine love and redemption still exists however for all souls pending their free will choices and their temporal and ultimate outcomes....but love's will never changes!

Infinite love implies that if someone exists then he is the beloved of GOD...

Ps 5:5 The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all workers of iniquity.
HATE:
Strong's 8130: sane: to hate
Original Word: שָׂנֵא
Definition: to hate

Psalm 11:5
The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked; His soul hates the lover of violence.

Rom 9:13 So it is written: “Jacob l loved, but Esau I hated.”
HATE:
Strong's 3404; miseó: to hate
Original Word: μισέω
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.

And in case you think someone else other than GOD Who hated Esau, Romans 9:13 refers to Malachi 1:2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have You loved us?” “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob; 3 but I have HATED Esau...

Such are written by men who must assign 'God' humanlike traits of love and hate, but these are human words and descriptions given to 'God', which are not perfect neither necessarily true, only by relative meaning and context. In any case 'God' is love. - if 'God' as a personality is a 'hater' of this or that, or of persons, then this 'god' is a respector of persons. Hmmm. Love is love. Of course even we humans hate evil! if we have any good within us, we do not appreciate injustice, dishonesty, crime, human suffering, etc. - but all these exist in creation, the Light and the shadows, good and evil all exist in 'God', The ONE. - all dualities, multiplicities, polarity arises within the great Matrix of Life. Eternal infinite love still exists for all, and of course may be limited by certain factors depending on individual reception and cooperation. Even still..... 'His love endures forever'!

So we have it in both the two languages of the Bible and they agree that the LORD our GOD hates some folk, a denial of a universal infinite loving nature. The stated fact that HE hates the workers of iniquity does not negate the probability that HE loved them before they worked iniquity by which they broke HIS love and put themselves into the category of people HE hates.

Well, I dont put human emotions or limitations upon Deity, because 'God' is much MORE. Just like a human father's love in its most perfect form, a mere reflection of the greater divine love, will love his children even if they despise, abuse or abandon their parents like the prodigal son....the Father is ALWAYS waiting for his children to return home! - only IF such children reach a state of being beyond redemption, beyond salvation, THEN we might assume these children are lost forever....whether undergoing an eternal soul-death' or some state of enduring torment as a result of continual sin. Either way, and other factors in the scenario...there is much more involved here than what petty religious beliefs or assumptions might offer to resolve this, which require deeper meditation.

The tyrant 'god' of eternal hellfire and torment does not deserve worship, neither does He/She/It earn the name of 'God' by any virtue of the label. Thats my opinion for now All opinions, points of view and even beliefs are subject to change.


----------------o