The Uncomfortable Question:Is God Really A Tyrant?

[Ted T]

He didn't create us as sinners. We became sinners.

How sophist...if HE did not have us created in Adam but created us as individuals like the angels, then and only then has HE not created us as sinners.

Before our conception we were not.
After our conception we were and we were sinners...
as proven by the embryo being subject to death and suffering which are the wages of sin not a consequence of lfe.

The only way that this does not prove that HE creates sinners is by doublethink that though HE creates no evil, evil people come into being within the system HE set up but that does not mean HE creates sinners, sigh.

 

[Ted T]

All are wrongdoers? I think not.
But he did create Satan automatically as a sinner.

I do not countenance this blasphemy - Satan chose by his free will to become what he is...

 

[7thMoon]

I do not countenance this blasphemy - Satan chose by his free will to become what he is...

Job 2:10 And he saith unto her, 'As one of the foolish women speaketh, thou speakest; yea, the good we receive from God, and the evil we do not receive.' In all this Job hath not sinned with his lips. (YLT)

Rather that God is a tyrant who demands perfection is the blaspheme/slander.

 

[Arial]

How sophist...if HE did not have us created in Adam but created us as individuals like the angels, then and only then has HE not created us as sinners.

Before our conception we were not.
After our conception we were and we were sinners...
as proven by the embryo being subject to death and suffering which are the wages of sin not a consequence of lfe.

The only way that this does not prove that HE creates sinners is by doublethink that though HE creates no evil, evil people come into being within the system HE set up but that does not mean HE creates sinners, sigh.

If what I said was a fallacious argument, then you are arguing with the Bible---therefore God. It is very clear. God created man and pronounced him good. He gave them one "don't" and they did it. Later in Romans the fall of man (just in case nobody could see it from reading the Bible and looking around) is described as "in Adam all sinned." If God created Adam to be the federal head of mankind, that is His business. That first sin changed the nature of man to be bent towards sin, just as God said it would. He gained not only the knowledge of good but of evil and he likes it. That very day, he tried to hide from God. Do you understand the concept of change? Something changed from the way God created us, and it changed in us. And though He creates us each now as individuals, and in that sense, you could say He creates sinners, but we are responsible for those sins, not God. We come to be through the natural secondary causes and have man's nature---which contains a nature to sin. Just as everything else is born with its nature. Cat, dog, cow, fly etc.

 

[Bladerunner]

So,
should I accept this means that you oo not share the current blasphemy that GOD does create sinners and sinful people by creating them on earth in Adam's lineage of sinfulness (whatever that means) so that they are estranged from HIM and unable to fulfill HIS purpose for them until HE intercedes for them in Christ...against scripture:
Isaiah 43:7, 21
7 "whom I created for my glory"
21 the people I formed for myself that they may proclaim my praise.r r
whereas created in sin means unable to fulfill HIS purpose....?

you either believe or you don't The worst sin in the world and the one sin that send one to HEll for an eternity is "Non-Belief"

Blade

 

[Ted T]

Job 2:10 And he saith unto her, 'As one of the foolish women speaketh, thou speakest; yea, the good we receive from God, and the evil we do not receive.' In all this Job hath not sinned with his lips. (YLT)

Rather that God is a tyrant who demands perfection is the blaspheme/slander.

Job 2:10 does not say that YHWH created Satan to be a sinner automatically.

 

[Ted T]

The worst sin in the world and the one sin that send one to HEll for an eternity is "Non-Belief"

Blade

...non-belief in Calvinism and Bladeism, right? <headshake>

 

[7thMoon]

Job 2:10 does not say that YHWH created Satan to be a sinner automatically.

John 8:44 does.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Ted T]

John 8:44 does.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

ImCo,
this beginning refers to the time of the decision of fait, pro and con, about YHWH's claims to be GOD and Saviour...not creation. No one can be a sinner without a free will rebellion to HIS nature or purposes.

It is paganism, eastern mysticism, gnosticism and Hinduism that contends that God created the first or even all evil...not the Holy Spirit.

---------------------------------------
Light cannot create darkness.
A good tree cannot put forth rotten fruit.
A stream of life giving water cannot put forth salt or brackish water.
Psalm 5:4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell.

 

[7thMoon]

ImCo,
this beginning refers to the time of the decision of fait, pro and con, about YHWH's claims to be GOD and Saviour...not creation. No one can be a sinner without a free will rebellion to HIS nature or purposes.

It is paganism, eastern mysticism, gnosticism and Hinduism that contends that God created the first or even all evil...not the Holy Spirit.

---------------------------------------
Light cannot create darkness.
A good tree cannot put forth rotten fruit.
A stream of life giving water cannot put forth salt or brackish water.
Psalm 5:4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell.

If Satan rebelled, then he was not redeemable; which he wasn't. Since Satan doesn't have free will, than he is not a sinner, I guess, nor redeemable.

You are just wrong in calling it Eastern. The concept comes from Judaism first.

 

[Bladerunner]

...non-belief in Calvinism and Bladeism, right? <headshake>

It does not matter what I (Blade) believe or do not believe about anything.....What I bring to you is the WORD of GOD. It is there as it is written for you to believe or NOT! I just told you what would happen by the sovereignty and authority of God's WORD if one remains in disbelief. There is a lot of people in this forum giving you good advice and you are bound and determined to ignore it.It is to your loss.

Blade

 

[freelight]

But do we understand love.

Well, love is love. If we are still imperfect, not realized or fully attained to that degree of realization of 'God', then our 'love' will be more or less 'imperfect', our understanding or experience of it, but we continue to trust love and grow in grace, for what else can we do? There is absolutely no fear in true love, so all fear must be released, transcended, overcome, for LOVE to fully BE realized, and its laws fulfilled. Love alone fulfills the laws of itself, life in all its potentiality and actuality, its absoluteness and infinity.

We are in a world where self is paramount. It is in all nature, and most human interactions.

All of us have an 'ego', 'personality' and other elements/facets of individual existence, that make up our 'soul', its a complex unit. The 'self' in all its aspects may contain various elements, both human and divine, however we dissect or define such 'selves' that make up our identity. Spirit, soul and body all make up one temple of 'God'....and then souls continue to re-embody or transform into new and more perfect bodies in the ascension process.

So what is pure love? Is it what I feel for a nice warm pizza? Or a nice warm woman? My friends? Is it a feeling at all?

Pure love is just that, PURE love....undiluted, unfiltered..... nothing but itself as holy presence, the most essential reality, that which is absolute. Pure love is not just a feeling per se, but includes true and real feelings generated by its nature and will, which are ever dynamic, allowing all potentials and possibilities for life to exist and the infinity of ways to experience and realize love, which has NO END. If 'God' really is love and only those who love know God and have potential to be heirs to all love is and all love has, then LOVE ought be our religion. True religion is love in action, doing good to others, its the very law of heaven that we can live here on earth. This truth is recognized by most all religions of the world and proved also by Near Death Experience and studies in the Afterlife including spirit communications from those living in the higher spirit spheres. No matter how you slice and dice it, doing good to others, the ethic or law of love is the way of life, service to others is the positive law of creation and its eternal progression (immortality).

Now those preaching a 'god' who confines, ordains and wills any number of souls to an eternal lake of fire or endless torments (with no hope of relief, reform or salvation whatsoever), do malign and deflile the name(nature/character) of 'Real God' and shall suffer from their 'sins' until they repent and realize the true 'God' of love and are restored thereby. In the meantime, the preaching/teaching of eternal hellfire and brimstone from a wrathful and blood-thirsty 'god' (demanding animal and HUMAN blood) has destroyed lives in its anti-love and torment rhetoric. My religion and understanding of 'God' is free of such tyranny and deviltry.


--------------o