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Quite Obvious That We Have a Tentative Grasp On The Holy Spirit

G

Grace Accepted

Guest
I don't know whether or not this forum is representative of Christendom in general but I have a feeling it is. Paul declared that the body of Christ should be one and here we are with such wild variations in beliefs and practices that if in general the Holy Spirit is responsible for our "knowledge" He is telling us all different things. This would be disturbing to say the least. This would be more like a god with a Schizotypal Personality Disorder. Yet here we are each perched on their truth cawing, cackling, wings fluttering, pecking at each other over doctrine.

This post isn't about casting blame but more a question, where is the Holy Spirit and which doctrines are essential and which are ok as volleyballs. I am sure this list would vary as much as our beliefs vary. I guess to start off we must acknowledge the truth that ego plays as big or maybe even bigger of a role than the Holy Spirit does in our interactions and is the cause of a lot of the arguments that drift into animus. Even though there are just a few here who cast insults and judgements when they can no longer defend a point, the rest of us are just as guilty when we answer in kind. So we are all consigned over to sin so that God may have mercy on us all. Let God be true and everyman a liar.

Since there are "volleyball" doctrines that are not integral to our salvation there is room for healthy debate (debate without aspersions, innuendos, smears or bickering.) But there are essential doctrines to our salvation and they all center around the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yes, there are deeper understandings of God's plan of salvation and less deep ones but the bottom line is faith, repentance and baptism if possible.

We really have no right to judge each other on these things since God looks upon the heart and we only look on the outward appearance. God looks at the heart in each of these matters because that is where the reality is for him. Whether you are dunked or sprinkled is not the point. It is how your heart is baptised that matters to God. It is not our business to judge another's repentance since it really is a growth process so we may see a back slider where as God sees a heart struggling to find Him.

When asked by the Jailer, "what must I do to be saved," Paul responded repent and be baptized. Repentance is granted by God to mankind which means that our efforts do not produce salvation they are a result of God saving us. So the crux of the matter is the salvation of God and what He wants to do for us. Whether Adam and Eve had navels and all the rest is up for grabs.
 
Grace Accepted said:

Quite Obvious That We Have a Tentative Grasp On The Holy Spirit​

Click to expand...
If ye love Me, keep My commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him:
but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:15-17

I don't know whether or not this forum is representative of Christendom in general but I have a feeling it is. Paul declared that the body of Christ should be one and here we are with such wild variations in beliefs and practices that if in general the Holy Spirit is responsible for our "knowledge" He is telling us all different things. This would be disturbing to say the least. This would be more like a god with a Schizotypal Personality Disorder. Yet here we are each perched on their truth cawing, cackling, wings fluttering, pecking at each other over doctrine.
Click to expand...
Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel:
for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land,
because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.
Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish,
with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.
Hosea 4:1-3

This post isn't about casting blame but more a question, where is the Holy Spirit and which doctrines are essential and which are ok as volleyballs. I am sure this list would vary as much as our beliefs vary. I guess to start off we must acknowledge the truth that ego plays as big or maybe even bigger of a role than the Holy Spirit does in our interactions and is the cause of a lot of the arguments that drift into animus. Even though there are just a few here who cast insults and judgements when they can no longer defend a point, the rest of us are just as guilty when we answer in kind. So we are all consigned over to sin so that God may have mercy on us all. Let God be true and everyman a liar.
Click to expand...
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment:
thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty:
but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Leviticus 19:15

Since there are "volleyball" doctrines that are not integral to our salvation there is room for healthy debate (debate without aspersions, innuendos, smears or bickering.) But there are essential doctrines to our salvation and they all center around the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yes, there are deeper understandings of God's plan of salvation and less deep ones but the bottom line is faith, repentance and baptism if possible.
Click to expand...
Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God,
to walk in His ways, and to fear Him.
Deuteronomy 8:6

We really have no right to judge each other on these things since God looks upon the heart and we only look on the outward appearance. God looks at the heart in each of these matters because that is where the reality is for him. Whether you are dunked or sprinkled is not the point. It is how your heart is baptised that matters to God. It is not our business to judge another's repentance since it really is a growth process so we may see a back slider where as God sees a heart struggling to find Him.
Click to expand...
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment;
but ye shall hear the small as well as the great;
ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's:
and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto Me, and I will hear it.
Deuteronomy 1:17

When asked by the Jailer, "what must I do to be saved," Paul responded repent and be baptized. Repentance is granted by God to mankind which means that our efforts do not produce salvation they are a result of God saving us. So the crux of the matter is the salvation of God and what He wants to do for us. Whether Adam and Eve had navels and all the rest is up for grabs.
Click to expand...
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as He hath commanded us.
Deuteronomy 6:25

He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me:
and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.
...
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name,
He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 14:21& 26
 
Comingfrom said:
If ye love Me, keep My commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him:
but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:15-17
Click to expand...
Anyone who has spent any time reading your material realizes that do not even have a grasp on the law.
Comingfrom said:
Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel:
for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land,
because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.
Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish,
with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.
Hosea 4:1-3
Click to expand...
There is no truth or knowledge in the land and unfortunately you’re not changing that scenario very much.
Comingfrom said:
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment:
thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty:
but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Leviticus 19:15


Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God,
to walk in His ways, and to fear Him.
Deuteronomy 8:6


Ye shall not respect persons in judgment;
but ye shall hear the small as well as the great;
ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's:
and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto Me, and I will hear it.
Deuteronomy 1:17


And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as He hath commanded us.
Deuteronomy 6:25

He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me:
and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.
...
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name,
He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 14:21& 26
Click to expand...
Once you start obeying the 10 Commandments get back to me.
 
Grace Accepted said:
I don't know whether or not this forum is representative of Christendom in general but I have a feeling it is. Paul declared that the body of Christ should be one and here we are with such wild variations in beliefs and practices that if in general the Holy Spirit is responsible for our "knowledge" He is telling us all different things. This would be disturbing to say the least. This would be more like a god with a Schizotypal Personality Disorder. Yet here we are each perched on their truth cawing, cackling, wings fluttering, pecking at each other over doctrine.

This post isn't about casting blame but more a question, where is the Holy Spirit and which doctrines are essential and which are ok as volleyballs. I am sure this list would vary as much as our beliefs vary. I guess to start off we must acknowledge the truth that ego plays as big or maybe even bigger of a role than the Holy Spirit does in our interactions and is the cause of a lot of the arguments that drift into animus. Even though there are just a few here who cast insults and judgements when they can no longer defend a point, the rest of us are just as guilty when we answer in kind. So we are all consigned over to sin so that God may have mercy on us all. Let God be true and everyman a liar.

Since there are "volleyball" doctrines that are not integral to our salvation there is room for healthy debate (debate without aspersions, innuendos, smears or bickering.) But there are essential doctrines to our salvation and they all center around the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yes, there are deeper understandings of God's plan of salvation and less deep ones but the bottom line is faith, repentance and baptism if possible.

We really have no right to judge each other on these things since God looks upon the heart and we only look on the outward appearance. God looks at the heart in each of these matters because that is where the reality is for him. Whether you are dunked or sprinkled is not the point. It is how your heart is baptised that matters to God. It is not our business to judge another's repentance since it really is a growth process so we may see a back slider where as God sees a heart struggling to find Him.

When asked by the Jailer, "what must I do to be saved," Paul responded repent and be baptized. Repentance is granted by God to mankind which means that our efforts do not produce salvation they are a result of God saving us. So the crux of the matter is the salvation of God and what He wants to do for us. Whether Adam and Eve had navels and all the rest is up for grabs.
Click to expand...
Good topic that I hope gets some thought provoking consideration.
Having civil and structured discussion about important things (such as scripture) is a good thing.
Effort should be used to make the discussions civil and structured; without insult, snipes, anger, finger-pointing, avoidance, word play tactics, etc.
It should be a thought provoking learning exploration instead of a pound the podium experience.
It takes discipline, and too many times we don't exercise discipline.


To truly explore all the possibilities of what truth is, one must occasionally get out of their comfort zone.
Get involved with areas of doctrine that you are not all that familiar with in order to get other's perspectives.
Take them all with a grain of salt and keep them in the corners of your mind because it just might be a key that opens an understanding that was holding you back.
Listen, ask questions, learn.
Try being a student instead of a teacher.
 
Sissy said:
Good topic that I hope gets some thought provoking consideration.
Having civil and structured discussion about important things (such as scripture) is a good thing.
Effort should be used to make the discussions civil and structured; without insult, snipes, anger, finger-pointing, avoidance, word play tactics, etc.
It should be a thought provoking learning exploration instead of a pound the podium experience.
It takes discipline, and too many times we don't exercise discipline.


To truly explore all the possibilities of what truth is, one must occasionally get out of their comfort zone.
Get involved with areas of doctrine that you are not all that familiar with in order to get other's perspectives.
Take them all with a grain of salt and keep them in the corners of your mind because it just might be a key that opens an understanding that was holding you back.
Listen, ask questions, learn.
Try being a student instead of a teacher.
Click to expand...
Nobody is ever convinced by someone telling them the truth. Telling never works and yet that is what we do.
 
Sissy said:
I disagree, so your focus of this thread probably isn't for me.
Click to expand...
See how telling you this didn't change your mind. Economist J.K. Galbraith once wrote, “Faced with a choice between changing one’s mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy with the proof.”

Leo Tolstoy was even bolder: “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.”
 
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