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Pentecostalism and the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Arial said:
No that won't happen. Once one has been given the truth by the glorious grace of God, they will never exchange it for a cult. No further discussion between us is necessary.
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We can discuss it after Christ returns. k?

I wish we could have agreed in this life, Arial. We will in the next.
 
shroom said:
Some of the things that you type are stupifying, Robert.

The day of Pentecost was the first time it became possible to become born again of holy spirit. Receiving holy spirit is what makes a person a Christian. When a person hears the gospel and believes it he is sealed with the gift of holy spirit, guaranteeing his salvation. When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2), not preaching the gospel to other people.
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No one receives the Holy Spirit without hearing and believing the Gospel. Most Pentecostals are not interested in the Gospel, because it is not about them. Pentecostalism is about a subjective experience. The Bible knows nothing about a subjective experience. The purpose of tongues in the early church was to promote the Gospel, not to give someone marvelous subjective experience. You need to come out of that religion.
 
robert pate said:
No one receives the Holy Spirit without hearing and believing the Gospel. Most Pentecostals are not interested in the Gospel, because it is not about them. Pentecostalism is about a subjective experience. The Bible knows nothing about a subjective experience. The purpose of tongues in the early church was to promote the Gospel, not to give someone marvelous subjective experience. You need to come out of that religion.
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Your first sentence is true. The rest aren’t.

Oh, and where are your scriptures?
 
shroom said:
Your first sentence is true. The rest aren’t.

Oh, and where are your scriptures?
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Pentecostalism puts a cloud over the Gospel. Like Calvinism it is another Gospel, the Gospel of religious experience. This is why Paul said to the Pentecostals, "I Know nothing among you save Jesus Christ and him crucified". You are on the wrong train going in the wrong direction.
 
robert pate said:
Pentecostalism puts a cloud over the Gospel. Like Calvinism it is another Gospel, the Gospel of religious experience. This is why Paul said to the Pentecostals, "I Know nothing among you save Jesus Christ and him crucified". You are on the wrong train going in the wrong direction.
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In what way is Calvinism a gospel of religious experience? You know, a statement like that should have some sort of substantiation or it is just RP not having any arrows in his quiver. It is a tuneless, clanging cymbal. It is a mind that says it is ok to lie to make my point. You don't even have a point that has anything whatsoever to do with the gospel. Your hate whatever is not of RP, that is the message you send. Great job preaching the gospel.
 
Arial said:
In what way is Calvinism a gospel of religious experience? You know, a statement like that should have some sort of substantiation or it is just RP not having any arrows in his quiver. It is a tuneless, clanging cymbal. It is a mind that says it is ok to lie to make my point. You don't even have a point that has anything whatsoever to do with the gospel. Your hate whatever is not of RP, that is the message you send. Great job preaching the gospel.
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All religions feed the flesh. With great pride you can say, "I was predestinated". Just like shroom can say, "I speak in tongues". It is like the church is a great passenger ship with 1st and 2nd class accommodations. You are in 1st class and everyone else is in 2nd class. The Pharisees also thought that they were 1st class. Jesus called them "Sons of hell".
 
robert pate said:
All religions feed the flesh. With great pride you can say, "I was predestinated". Just like shroom can say, "I speak in tongues". It is like the church is a great passenger ship with 1st and 2nd class accommodations. You are in 1st class and everyone else is in 2nd class. The Pharisees also thought that they were 1st class. Jesus called them "Sons of hell".
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Just like you can say "I chose Christ?" It is with great humility that I say I was saved by nothing but God's grace in giving me the faith I needed to trust in Jesus alone for salvation. It is with great humility that I say Jesus rescued me because He loves me in spite of the fact that I am poor and needy. That by His own power and sacrifice, He brought me to life when I was dead in my trespasses and sins. It is the Bible that tells me He did this because He chose to, not because I chose to.

When you make the blanket statement that all who believe in predestination are prideful about it, you are saying something about yourself and not all those people you do not know, and cannot see into their hearts, but judge anyway. You are projecting your own character onto them.
 
Arial said:
Just like you can say "I chose Christ?" It is with great humility that I say I was saved by nothing but God's grace in giving me the faith I needed to trust in Jesus alone for salvation. It is with great humility that I say Jesus rescued me because He loves me in spite of the fact that I am poor and needy. That by His own power and sacrifice, He brought me to life when I was dead in my trespasses and sins. It is the Bible that tells me He did this because He chose to, not because I chose to.

When you make the blanket statement that all who believe in predestination are prideful about it, you are saying something about yourself and not all those people you do not know, and cannot see into their hearts, but judge anyway. You are projecting your own character onto them.
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You think that you were chosen by the grace of God while others were damned to hell? You have the same thinking as the Pharisees. "Thank God I am not as other people". Especially like robert pate. Lets be honest. You think that God chose you because you are the apple of God's eye.
 
robert pate said:
You think that you were chosen by the grace of God while others were damned to hell? You have the same thinking as the Pharisees. "Thank God I am not as other people". Especially like robert pate. Lets be honest. You think that God chose you because you are the apple of God's eye.
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You know, the things you say and the way you say them practically demand that people have the word stupid come to mind. It is all they can do to not say it.

You think you are saved because you had the brilliance and good sense to choose to be saved. How is that not arrogant? How is that not saying, "I thank God I am not like one of those Calvinists who sit around waiting for God to choose them." To this say, "Thank you God that you saved me by grace and may I never think I deserved your grace by saving myself." God did not choose me because I am the apple of His eye, I am the apple of His eye because He chose me. But, going back to my first statement here, I do not expect you are able to even begin to understand that statement, so full of dependance on yourself and your superior wisdom in choosing to be saved, as you seem to be. Better to trust in yourself that to trust in God? And then call that chest thumping humility.
 
Arial said:
You know, the things you say and the way you say them practically demand that people have the word stupid come to mind. It is all they can do to not say it.
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I was thinking "idiot," but didn't say it... :)

Robert is a crusty old man who thinks he's doing God's will by telling everyone they're going to hell.

Arial said:
You think you are saved because you had the brilliance and good sense to choose to be saved. How is that not arrogant? How is that not saying, "I thank God I am not like one of those Calvinists who sit around waiting for God to choose them." To this say, "Thank you God that you saved me by grace and may I never think I deserved your grace by saving myself." God did not choose me because I am the apple of His eye, I am the apple of His eye because He chose me. But, going back to my first statement here, I do not expect you are able to even begin to understand that statement, so full of dependance on yourself and your superior wisdom in choosing to be saved, as you seem to be. Better to trust in yourself that to trust in God? And then call that chest thumping humility.
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Anyone can choose to believe the gospel. Robert is right about that.
 
Arial said:
You know, the things you say and the way you say them practically demand that people have the word stupid come to mind. It is all they can do to not say it.

You think you are saved because you had the brilliance and good sense to choose to be saved. How is that not arrogant? How is that not saying, "I thank God I am not like one of those Calvinists who sit around waiting for God to choose them." To this say, "Thank you God that you saved me by grace and may I never think I deserved your grace by saving myself." God did not choose me because I am the apple of His eye, I am the apple of His eye because He chose me. But, going back to my first statement here, I do not expect you are able to even begin to understand that statement, so full of dependance on yourself and your superior wisdom in choosing to be saved, as you seem to be. Better to trust in yourself that to trust in God? And then call that chest thumping humility.
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My salvation was not of myself. I heard the Gospel and was convicted by the Holy Spirit of my need for Christ, just like those on the day of Pentecost when 8,000 were saved. It was a strong call to come to Christ. It was a traumatic life changing experience. I have not been the same since that happened. Tell us about your life changing salvation experience.
 
robert pate said:
My salvation was not of myself. I heard the Gospel and was convicted by the Holy Spirit of my need for Christ, just like those on the day of Pentecost when 8,000 were saved. It was a strong call to come to Christ. It was a traumatic life changing experience. I have not been the same since that happened. Tell us about your life changing salvation experience.
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So then it was of God, not of your choosing, so how is that different from what I have always been saying. The only difference is that you say God does the same thing for everyone and I do not. (All those scriptures on predestined, called, chosen, foreknew, elect.) Can you show me in scripture where God does this for everyone.

If you can get past your hate and judgement and ridicule I might share my experience with you. Right now it is too precious to trust you with.
 
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