Jesus talks about the coming destruction of Jerusalem

[TrevorL]

Greetings again MatthewG,

Anyway you believe whatever you want to… I believe in a spiritual kingdom and that is where a Christian’s true home resides, following after Christ and learning about him, and seeking to do the Will of God by abiding in Christ.

You use a lot of words, but your title of this thread is suggesting that the present Jerusalem is to be destroyed, and I am suggesting that the Scripture you quoted is only about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. Out of the three Mount of Olives discourses you chose the Luke record which is the only one of the three that specifically states after the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem and the removal of the Jews, that there would be a treading down of Jerusalem for a long period called the Times of the Gentiles. Now at the end of this period it does not say that Jerusalem will be destroyed again, rather it suggests that there will be a reversal of this situation, and that Jerusalem again will be relieved of her captivity and down treading by Gentiles. This has been partially fulfilled in AD 1967 when the Jews recaptured Jerusalem and the 2300 time period of Daniel 8:13-14 has had a significant if only a partial fulfilment, BC 334-333 to AD 1967. Refer also to Joel 3:1-2 which suggests AD 1948 and AD 1967. Yes a spiritual kingdom is true in that we worship Jesus as our King, but there are prophecies that teach that Jesus is to return and establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8, Acts 3:19-21, Psalm 110:1-3, Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[MatthewG]

Oh no, that wouldn’t be contextually correct.

It would contextually correct for that generation of people Jesus was speaking towards…

Consider the parable Jesus told the Pharisees about the Vineyard.

 

[MatthewG]

The difference between me and @TrevorL

Is our eschatological understanding is different.

I believe everything was fulfilled in 70Ad. No delay… some believe in a delay I do not.

 

[MatthewG]

If Jesus was going to setup a material kingdom he would have done it when he was on earth. Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world.

So therefore, If I understand you correctly @TrevorL you are expecting and hoping for a brand new earth where no evil will exist. That’s fine and I don’t wanna knock of your hope and you may believe however you so are lead but I don’t believe everything that you are sharing with me as far as a material kingdom, and I do not believe a new psychical earth will come to fruition.

I do believe those who are born again approach the world ina. New way, which deals spiritually with us individually as believers and children or sons and daughters of God living and following Christ by abiding in him.

 

[MatthewG]

All three accounts need to be considered not just one.

Many people seek a simple answer on the surface level that never works.

Study takes time and effort.

I’m not even capable of explaining everything I just believe that Jesus came and got his bride destroyed material religion and everything now today is a choice. Believe and seek after God in your life or not.

Thank you for sharing your view either way Trevor though I disagree with it I love you the same and hope the best for you in your life in Christ spiritually brother, and of course to be kept safe from any harm.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again MatthewG,

I believe everything was fulfilled in 70Ad.

But you still are preaching that "Jesus talks about the coming destruction of Jerusalem". You do not say Jesus was only speaking about AD 70. You incorrectly base you claim and title of this thread in your OP using Luke 21:1-38 NLT. There were many false prophets in OT times, fifteen to the dozen, and there are many false prophets today. If Jesus is going to destroy Jerusalem, the capital of Israel, will he also destroy Washington, London, Paris and Rome?

So therefore, If I understand you correctly @TrevorL you are expecting and hoping for a brand new earth where no evil will exist.

No I believe in the same earth where Jesus and the faithful will rule over the mortal nations for 1000 years Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[MatthewG]

Gotcha. It is wrong to assume that I’m talking about today. I’m not. Should have been more clear.

Thank you for participating.

God bless you sir.

 

[L.B.]

Clarity always helps. I was following you both in the unfolding debate and glad to see you are defining the 'then now and future issue' regarding the destruction of the temple.
Can I add, if it is okay, the curtain was torn at Calvary... and in 3 days the templet was rebuilt in Christ (and we its lively stones of the church). Yes in 70ad human forces destroyed the physical structure, but the curtain was already torn. Rev is such a difficult subject!
@MatthewG @TrevorL

 

[MatthewG]

Clarity always helps. I was following you both in the unfolding debate and glad to see you are defining the 'then now and future issue' regarding the destruction of the temple.
Can I add, if it is okay, the curtain was torn at Calvary... and in 3 days the templet was rebuilt in Christ (and we its lively stones of the church). Yes in 70ad human forces destroyed the physical structure, but the curtain was already torn. Rev is such a difficult subject!
@MatthewG @TrevorL

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I am hoping to one day have a better grasp on it. The person I follow and share teachings Shawn M. Is making a booklet for people to consider in a verse by verse study on revelation. It will be coming around in 2023, right now at the eduction school they are getting read to do “cult Christian ultra libertarians for truth leadership program) which will cost money of course) which will have exams and quizzes set up together for people to do to get a better grasp on what he has come to understand, having done a verse by verse teaching on revelation.

Now I may not agree with everything but I know one thing is for sure L.B. I still desire the truth, and know what is going on with revelation more… to be able to teach on it myself one day if I continue to do teaching which I haven’t done in a little while still on Mark chapter 10, due to drug relapse but by the grace of God if he desires me to continue to produce and resume where I was to be helpful and beneficial to the spiritual growth of an individual I would desire that more than anything else really in the world.

Thank you for sharing your comment, Lb.

 

[L.B.]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I am hoping to one day have a better grasp on it. The person I follow and share teachings Shawn M. Is making a booklet for people to consider in a verse by verse study on revelation. It will be coming around in 2023, right now at the eduction school they are getting read to do “cult Christian ultra libertarians for truth leadership program) which will cost money of course) which will have exams and quizzes set up together for people to do to get a better grasp on what he has come to understand, having done a verse by verse teaching on revelation.

Now I may not agree with everything but I know one thing is for sure L.B. I still desire the truth, and know what is going on with revelation more… to be able to teach on it myself one day if I continue to do teaching which I haven’t done in a little while still on Mark chapter 10, due to drug relapse but by the grace of God if he desires me to continue to produce and resume where I was to be helpful and beneficial to the spiritual growth of an individual I would desire that more than anything else really in the world.

Thank you for sharing your comment, Lb.

Keep the Lord as your strength. Keep the search for truth (adding to what you have already discovered) in your heart and mind.
I look forward to you sharing further truth discoveries and I was so deeply reading both you and Trev in discussion. Thank you both.
Together we learn: iron sharpens iron... sparks are just the shaping of our understanding of truth!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again MatthewG,

Gotcha. It is wrong to assume that I’m talking about today. I’m not. Should have been more clear.

I have reread all the posts and it seems I have misunderstood you, and that you were only talking about AD 70. If this is the case I apologise and I will try to be more careful in the future. Nevertheless I am not sure what was the purpose of the thread and OP.

The person I follow and share teachings Shawn M. Is making a booklet for people to consider in a verse by verse study on revelation.

Have you checked to what view of the Book of Revelation he subscribes. There are the view that this is already fulfilled (in AD 70?), and the futuristic view (all yet to be fulfilled) and the continuous historic view (the seals, trumpets and vials are successive portions of history). I subscribe to the continuous historic view and I believe that we are in the period of the 6th Vial, near the return of Jesus. I suggest that it is necessary to have a good understanding of the OT prophecies to understand the Book of Revelation properly. You seem to differ with my understanding of the OT prophecies, so I assume you will differ on the Book of Revelation. We have been studying the Book of Revelation in our Senior Sunday School over a number of years and we are up to Revelation 14. Our oldest member was 105 and was attentive, but he is now 106 and feeling his age and only comes to the Memorial Meeting and still has hits wits about him. I have been encouraged that many portions of this difficult prophecy have "clicked" into place as we carefully considered this.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[L.B.]

Greetings again MatthewG,

I have reread all the posts and it seems I have misunderstood you, and that you were only talking about AD 70. If this is the case I apologise and I will try to be more careful in the future. Nevertheless I am not sure what was the purpose of the thread and OP.

Have you checked to what view of the Book of Revelation he subscribes. There are the view that this is already fulfilled (in AD 70?), and the futuristic view (all yet to be fulfilled) and the continuous historic view (the seals, trumpets and vials are successive portions of history). I subscribe to the continuous historic view and I believe that we are in the period of the 6th Vial, near the return of Jesus. I suggest that it is necessary to have a good understanding of the OT prophecies to understand the Book of Revelation properly. You seem to differ with my understanding of the OT prophecies, so I assume you will differ on the Book of Revelation. We have been studying the Book of Revelation in our Senior Sunday School over a number of years and we are up to Revelation 14. Our oldest member was 105 and was attentive, but he is now 106 and feeling his age and only comes to the Memorial Meeting and still has hits wits about him. I have been encouraged that many portions of this difficult prophecy have "clicked" into place as we carefully considered this.

Kind regards
Trevor

' I have been encouraged that many portions of this difficult prophecy have "clicked" into place as we carefully considered this'
Trev, never a truer word said! It is a fantastic recommendation.
Rev is such a complex and deep text in Scripture.
You know the best way I see it now is through the God authored eyes of the writer in context to the historical situation of its time. Writing of current events and the Roman empire, and how it creates cautionary advice not to be swayed by its influences.... and looking ahead. Through a rearticulation in our time it carries the same message for us too... and that same end to history (worldly history)... of its time and our time.
I salute your elder... may you have cause to say Liam down South wishes him very well in his 106 years.
Blessings
L. B.