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Is God Evil?

CherubRam said:
Translators used the word "evil" in place of the words "trouble / troublesome / menace / menacing / and chaos."
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'God' as that infinite reality or origin of all that exists...could be seen as prior to or transcending any definition of 'good' or 'evil',....but as long as we are relating to 'God' in the world of creation, relativity, duality, polarities......then we can use these relative terms to apply to 'God' or anyone/anything really. In a personal relational context we of course relate to 'God' as being GOOD in contrast to being evil in nature, but since 'God' is the origin of all that exists in potential and possibility....allowing for such.....then all dualities still originate and are contextualized within the Infinite ONE that God IS. - so you can debate/argue or explore all the metaphysics involved with that, plus more. The Whole or ALL must by virtue of its constitution and all-inclusiveness contain all good and evil, all dimensions possible...the entire spectrum!

As far as the word 'evil' some translators CHOSE to use for whatever original hebrew word in the text,....what do you feel is the best word to replace 'evil' with? (in most cases) - what bible translation do you feel corrects the problem or uses a more appropriate word for you?

In some cases its hard to tell if the 'God' of the OT is really good or not by his demeanor, commands and conduct, so some dont trust that 'god' but find Jesus 'god' who he called his 'Father' a much more loving benevolent 'God', but the jury is still out in some camps if the two 'gods' are the same 'God' or not.

If Real God is actually love.....then by nature He/She/It would act in a kindly and loving manner, and that eternally since the divine nature cannot but be and do as its nature affords. - the 'god' of the OT has commanded many heinous things it would appear, besides also demanding bloody sacrifices, ...that to some doesnt appear to be loving at all, especially if this same 'god' confines and damns some souls to burn in hellfire for all eternity TO NO END. (this being a more defined Christian belief or dogma for some). Thats pretty heinous besides dialoblical. - but perhaps I digress......

'Good' and 'evil' are relative terms. 'God' as some primeval absolute reality would be prior to all relativity, so transcends relative definitions, although we may relate to 'God' or anything as 'good' or 'evil',...so much of this is subject to abstraction to a degree. Who really knows what 'God' is...but that 'God' IS. - maybe 'God' or 'gods' are just figments or images in our own imagination that we have created to relate to, so becomes subject to our own definitions more or less. Whose creating and defining terms? Who else? It would appear we are co-creating our own reality to some extent and that would include all language and its term limits.

At some point the mind explodes or implodes at the concept of infinity ...which may be a good thing :) I kinda enjoy nirvana ;)


---------------o
 
freelight said:
'God' as that infinite reality or origin of all that exists...could be seen as prior to or transcending any definition of 'good' or 'evil',....but as long as we are relating to 'God' in the world of creation, relativity, duality, polarities......then we can use these relative terms to apply to 'God' or anyone/anything really. In a personal relational context we of course relate to 'God' as being GOOD in contrast to being evil in nature, but since 'God' is the origin of all that exists in potential and possibility....allowing for such.....then all dualities still originate and are contextualized within the Infinite ONE that God IS. - so you can debate/argue or explore all the metaphysics involved with that, plus more. The Whole or ALL must by virtue of its constitution and all-inclusiveness contain all good and evil, all dimensions possible...the entire spectrum!

As far as the word 'evil' some translators CHOSE to use for whatever original hebrew word in the text,....what do you feel is the best word to replace 'evil' with? (in most cases) - what bible translation do you feel corrects the problem or uses a more appropriate word for you?

In some cases its hard to tell if the 'God' of the OT is really good or not by his demeanor, commands and conduct, so some dont trust that 'god' but find Jesus 'god' who he called his 'Father' a much more loving benevolent 'God', but the jury is still out in some camps if the two 'gods' are the same 'God' or not.

If Real God is actually love.....then by nature He/She/It would act in a kindly and loving manner, and that eternally since the divine nature cannot but be and do as its nature affords. - the 'god' of the OT has commanded many heinous things it would appear, besides also demanding bloody sacrifices, ...that to some doesnt appear to be loving at all, especially if this same 'god' confines and damns some souls to burn in hellfire for all eternity TO NO END. (this being a more defined Christian belief or dogma for some). Thats pretty heinous besides dialoblical. - but perhaps I digress......

'Good' and 'evil' are relative terms. 'God' as some primeval absolute reality would be prior to all relativity, so transcends relative definitions, although we may relate to 'God' or anything as 'good' or 'evil',...so much of this is subject to abstraction to a degree. Who really knows what 'God' is...but that 'God' IS. - maybe 'God' or 'gods' are just figments or images in our own imagination that we have created to relate to, so becomes subject to our own definitions more or less. Whose creating and defining terms? Who else? It would appear we are co-creating our own reality to some extent and that would include all language and its term limits.

At some point the mind explodes or implodes at the concept of infinity ...which may be a good thing :) I kinda enjoy nirvana ;)


---------------o
Click to expand...
Good job at articulating. None of the bibles do a good job in regards to a correct translation. I myself have not completed the study, but I do have those places marked off in my NIV Exhaustive Concordance. Since good is right and evil is wrong, it is logical to assume God is Good and right. Otherwise He would be the God of error, and I assure you that is not true. Soon, at some point in time, I will need to correct those places in the bible. It took seventy scholars to translate the bible and I am just one person. The difference between myself and those other people, is that I do not cling to Mysticism, Gnosticism, or Paganism. I believe that it is a sin to tamper with the bible.
 
CherubRam said:
People have been mislead. Very few find their way to the truth.

Job 34:10
“So listen to me, you men of understanding. Far be it from God to do evil, from the Almighty to do wrong.
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Those who have no fear of the God of the Jews and refuse to learn from what happened to those who went before them will go down the same path of destruction they did.
 
CherubRam said:
God is not evil.​





Because of these verses in the King James Bible, people say," I could never serve a God that is evil".



Very few people are aware of this fact, and that is, that the King James Bible was translated by a secret society for their use; as a matter of fact it is also called the "Masonic bible".



Interpreting certain scriptures as God doing evil supports the Masonic philosophy of Dualism, that God is both good and evil.



Here in Jeremiah 8:8 is a prophecy; and it states that the word of God would be tampered with.



K.J.V. Jeremiah 8:8. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.



N.I.V. Jeremiah 8:8. "How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?



The word of God is divinely inspired, and as Christians it is your responsibility to see to it that you’re being taught the truth; yes, you, and not somebody else.







Psalms 5:4-5. For you are not a God that has pleasure in wickedness: neither will evil dwell with you.

5. The foolish will not stand in your sight: you hatest all workers of iniquity.



Job 34:10. Therefore hearken to me you men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.



Psalms 5:4-5 and Job 34:10 both show God doing evil is a contradiction to what is written.









Here is a list of scriptures below that are not translated correctly to support the Masonic belief of Dualism.



Exodus 5:22. And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Lord, wherefore hast thou so evil entreated this people? why is it that thou hast sent me?



Exodus 32:12.Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from your fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against your people.



Joshua 23:15.Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you.



Judges 9:23. Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:



1 Samuel 6:9. And see, if it goeth up by the way of his own coast to Beth-shemesh, then he has done us this great evil: but if not, then we shall know that it is not his hand that smote us; it was a chance that happened to us.



1 Samuel 16:14-23. But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

15. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

16. Let our Lord now command your servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

17. And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me.

18. Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the Lord is with him.

19. Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse, and said, Send me David thy son, which is with the sheep.

20. And Jesse took an ass laden with bread, and a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent them by David his son unto Saul.

21. And David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly; and he became his armourbearer.

22. And Saul sent to Jesse, saying, Let David, I pray thee, stand before me; for he hath found favour in my sight.

23. And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.



1 Samuel 18:10. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.



1 Samuel 19:9. And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.



2 Samuel 12:11. Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto your neighbour, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun.



1 Kings 9:9. And they shall answer, Because they forsook the Lord their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the Lord brought upon them all this evil.



1 Kings 14:10. Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.



1 Kings 21:21 and 29. 21. Behold, I will bring evil upon thee, and will take away thy posterity, and will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel,

29. Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house.



1 Kings 22:23. Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.



2 Kings 6:33. And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the Lord; what should I wait for the Lord any longer?



2 Kings 21:12. Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.



2 Kings 22:16 and 20. Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:

20. Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again.



2 Chronicles 7:22. And it shall be answered, Because they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.



2 Chronicles 18:22. Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.



2 Chronicles 34:24 and 28. Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah:

28. Behold, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace, neither shall thine eyes see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants of the same. So they brought the king word again.



Nehemiah 13:18. Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? Yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.



Job 42:11. Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and everyone an earring of gold.



Psalms 54:5. He shall reward evil unto mine enemies: cut them off in thy truth.



Psalms 78:49. He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.



Isaiah 31:2. Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words: but will arise against the house of the evildoers, and against the help of them that work iniquity.



Isaiah 45:7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.



Jeremiah 4:6. Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.



Jeremiah 6:19. Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened to my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.



Jeremiah 11:11,17 and 23. Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they will cry unto me, I will not hearken to them.

17. For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.

23. And there will be no remnant of them: for I will bring evil upon the men of Anathoth, even the year of their visitation.



Jeremiah 16:10. And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt show this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the Lord our God?



Jeremiah 18:8. If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

9. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

10. If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

11. Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now everyone from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.



Jeremiah 19:3 and 15. And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears will tingle.

15. Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.



Jeremiah 23:12. Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord.



Jeremiah 26:3. If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.



Micah 1:12. For the inhabitant of Maroth waited carefully for good: but evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem.





God created the concept of good and evil, but He Himself is pure and good.
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The Gnostics think so but I'm not sure anyone else does. Usually he's thought of as good or nonexistent.
 
CherubRam said:
Good job at articulating. None of the bibles do a good job in regards to a correct translation. I myself have not completed the study, but I do have those places marked off in my NIV Exhaustive Concordance. Since good is right and evil is wrong, it is logical to assume God is Good and right. Otherwise He would be the God of error, and I assure you that is not true. Soon, at some point in time, I will need to correct those places in the bible. It took seventy scholars to translate the bible and I am just one person. The difference between myself and those other people, is that I do not cling to Mysticism, Gnosticism, or Paganism. I believe that it is a sin to tamper with the bible.
Click to expand...

Adding to my former commentary here, the subject of 'evil' is wonderful enough to spend many books on, the issue of 'theodicy', etc......but we again must see that if 'God' is the 'Creator' of all reality or the 'original reality' from which all springs from, then all potentials and possibilities exist because of 'God'(all forms), that includes whatever concept of 'evil' you can assume or imagine. This gets deeper in the area of metaphysics, ontology and philosophy, the whole problem of 'evil' existing where God's omnipresence IS. - so most 'new thought' or 'spiritual science' approaches are to see the 'unreality' or 'illusion' of so called 'evil' as a privation or lack of God-good, but since God the GOOD is omnipresent and is the only universal absolute reality,...then 'evil' has no true existence, it is a nil, a no-thing, an inversion of good, a shadow with no substance, etc.

However, in human experience in this dimension of space-time, good and evil appears to exist in a dual-relationship or contrast; - it seems all the potentials for good OR evil can be produced by free will choice as well and other imperfections or inversions of reality (human miscreations?) In this world there is 'relativity', so the Creator is said to be the creator or allower of all gradations of reality or the seeming lack thereof, all that is divinely 'real' and all that is 'unreal' can have some kind of existence or expression in the field of potential that that the Infinite Creator upholds and sustains, or at least by universal laws and principles that govern the creation of all, still all originating from The Creator.

In a creation where all potential for light/darkness, good/evil, reality/unreality can appear to be, then thats what APPEARS to be. Its the only context that we can say 'God' is good, or that 'God' is love and light.....and then its assumed that God cannot be evil, fearful or dark....since it seems that these qualities or attributes God cannot have or be, BUT...yes that the big BUT .....we see imperfection, suffering, fear, lack, death, destruction, insanity all around us, a hell-like experience, one where 'God' does not appear to be PRESENT in his divine opulence and perfection! - so where is 'God' in all that? - back to the big mystery of evil and its blight upon the creation originally deemed 'good' by divine decree. - 'theology' in its various 'explanations' has crafted many reasons, solutions and assumptions about it all.

For an agnostic or atheist, the question of 'God' remains to be proven by some means, let alone if said 'God' is really 'good' or 'evil' if it can even be ascertained, when 'good' and 'evil' appear to exist simultaneously as a part of the spectrum here, with alot of souls apparently CHOOSING to embody and express EVIL; - I think 'God' is probably above good or evil, transcending all, beyond 'name' or 'definition', unqualified and without divided 'terms'.

The denominations of good or evil only have 'relative' value where such a polarity is possible (or is preceivable), and that only appears in a creation where the Potential of EVIL exists. - one can still blame it all on 'God' for allowing evil and allowing all the suffering, but maybe thats a childish and petty blame to lay at the feet of a presumed Deity of good, who by one's own definition of 'good' may be fanciful after all.

You're stuck with any number of assumptions and/or solutions here in protecting God's GOOD reputation, and maybe some of those religious attempts are petty or unimpressive, but to fall back on some fluffy pillow of 'theodicy' to appease your own belief system. Your also stuck with a reverse coin issue of proving God is wholly GOOD to add to the abstraction.

All I know is that I AM. Thats the proof of 'God' (Life, Being, Existence, Consciousness, Light, Reality) and that the play of relativity, difference, duality arises in one's experience as perceptions or points of view that we name 'good' or 'evil', 'light or dark', 'positive or negative' and so on. Its all a play of perception in space-time, of light ,colour and shadow, of dimensions, degrees, measurements, assumptions. - its a simulation; - we could say 'God' is that spark of true love, light, intelligence, power, potential and integrity in the soul, that is encouraging and guiding us to fulfill our divine life-potential in infinite ways.....in the midst of change, contrast, adversity, etc.... that appears to be what we're on about here in these physical bodies, to learn and experience what is potential and possible. 'God' then is the Unified Field of potentials/possibilities ALLOWING all these to play out in various ways in space, time and eternity (all worlds possible).

There's more to the quest-ion of course,....I love 'God' as the Source and Giver of all good, and hold to the 'spiritual science' that the essence of good is all-pervading and omnipresent in the fullness of God's OMNIPRESENCE....here and NOW, eternally so (this knowledge/knowing abides inherently in the depth of my own being, because its the 'light' that knows itself TO BE, the I AM Presence. - I assume that Absolute Reality to be absolute.....so all else is a relative abstraction of some form, measurement or dimension arising in the inter-play of creation,...so in that field of creation, all is relative, except what is absolute, so we see 'God' as the Heart of GOOD that is ever-present, no matter what appears in contrast to it. The timeless perfection of God is untouched or unsullied by space or time, unstained by any passing image or appearance (all conditioning or change). God-good then prevails, no matter what appearances of evil arise, so as we are truly God-conscious, we are ever God-victorious! :) In this context, the higher good of divine will and love ultimately triumphs.

This could all be wishful thinking, but there's one stab at it ;)


-------------o
 
popsthebuilder said:
Why the attitude friend?
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First of all, is it or is it not dumb to call God "Evil"?
Is it or is it not an affront to God to call God "Evil"?

Answer: Yes, to both. That's half of my answer to your question.

The other half is, after years of seeing utter ignorance, stupidity, false statements, and many outright lies about the Bible, Christianity, etc., my patience with such things is done.

So yes, I called the question a stupid question. Frankly, that was the mildest most benevolent adjective I could think of. I could have said something far more accurate and crueler.

If somebody calling something "stupid" gets your panties in a wad then maybe the Internet is not the place for you. I am kind and sweet by most internet standards.
 
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