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Godly Character - What is it?

Hmm. Was Jesus pious? One could argue He got into trouble with the Guardians of Piety of His time by doing things like healing people on God's Sabbath. How disrespectful to God! But that's just a "godliness" implementation detail.
It's difficult to make my point when the Bible is not very clear on this.

But I would posit that God sets the standard for right behavior.
What I would call godly character. The scripture below illustrates this well, I believe.
The key is verse 48. It points to the "love your enemies" statement as a godly quality.
What is "perfect" in this context?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

]
 
@Steven quoting Jesus said:
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
So, Jesus agrees with O'Darby (uh oh!) that "godliness" is going beyond what the world considers "virtue".

(My uncle worked for our state Department of Revenue. I always wanted to ask him what he thought of these Biblical references to Tax Collectors as being people so disgusting as to be beyond shunning.)
 
So, Jesus agrees with O'Darby (uh oh!) that "godliness" is going beyond what the world considers "virtue".
Horrors! - LOL

(My uncle worked for our state Department of Revenue. I always wanted to ask him what he thought of these Biblical references to Tax Collectors as being people so disgusting as to be beyond shunning.)
This issue, as I understand it, is that THESE tax collectors were considered to be traitors working for Rome.
The Israelites were already paying a Temple tax and giving to the Temple. So, that wasn't the issue.

/
 
Does God love his enemies? You'd have a hard time making that case from the OT and standard Christian hellfire doctrine.
That's why I'm a Christian Universalist. The standard doctrine doesn't fit my view of the character of God.
I believe in the ultimate redemption (UR) of ALL of humankind.

]
 
SteVen said:
Everyone has a God-given human conscience. Thus is our source of what is right and wrong. I think Jesus called us to an even higher standard than worldly virtue.

My understanding of the Golden Rule is: Do to others what you would have them do to you.
Perhaps you are thinking of the greatest commandment(s)? Love God; Love your neighbor. ???

From Jesus we get: walk the second mile; turn the other cheek; if someone sues you for your shirt, hand over your coat as well; anger is the same as murder; lust is the same as adultery; don't take credit for your giving; love your enemies. And so on.

]
My point was just that with the Two Greatest Commandments you have the "virtue half" and the "godly half" that together make for "godliness."
 
In reference to all of humankind, that's what I would call our God-given human conscience.

]

I agree. It's where atheists run aground, I think. Apart from a God-given sense of morality, there is no basis for resisting our compulsions. If they reduce humanity to animal instinct, lacking any inner moral compass-- there would be negative consequences that are avoided simply because atheists, like everyone else does have this code of ethics imprinted within, whether they believe in a divine source, or not.
 
I agree. It's where atheists run aground, I think. Apart from a God-given sense of morality, there is no basis for resisting our compulsions. If they reduce humanity to animal instinct, lacking any inner moral compass-- there would be negative consequences that are avoided simply because atheists, like everyone else does have this code of ethics imprinted within, whether they believe in a divine source, or not.
Yes. This is an interesting thing. Atheists and those of other religions MAY reject the God of the Bible based on having their "own" moral compass, but... where did that moral compass come from?

AND it's very convenient for US to claim it came from the God of the Bible, but... if not, where did it come from?

] cc: @O'Darby III
 
Yes. This is an interesting thing. Atheists and those of other religions MAY reject the God of the Bible based on having their "own" moral compass, but... where did that moral compass come from?

AND it's very convenient for US to claim it came from the God of the Bible, but... if not, where did it come from?

] cc: @O'Darby III
Few atheists reject biblical morality in broad terms. They may disagree on specifics, such as LGBTQ rights, but so do Christians. They don't reject the God of the Bible because they have a wildly different morality but because they don't think he exists. And biblical morality overlaps to a large extent with the morality of other religions and belief systems, some of which atheists are quite friendly toward.

The innate sense of right and wrong could come from a creator who is common to all humans but is not, in fact, the God of Christianity. Or much of it could be the product of evolution or simply of human consensus arrived at as humans have adapted to living in social environments.

Christians can't avoid thinking this is all attributable to the God in whom we believe. But, certainly, morality existed before there was any Bible. I don't reject the notion of a creator having instilled some basic moral compass within us, but notions of right and wrong have varied so widely throughout human history that I do think morality is mostly a flexible concept that is arrived at on the basis of human consensus.

The Humanist Manifesto, which is pretty much a statement of atheist morality, really isn't too bad. The Christian objection would be: Human nature being what it is, you will never achieve these aspirations without the transforming effect of religion, as every unsuccessful experiment in communal utopian living has shown.

Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.​

The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. It evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.

Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies. We also recognize the value of new departures in thought, the arts, and inner experience—each subject to analysis by critical intelligence.

Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.

Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.

Life’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death. Humanists rely on the rich heritage of human culture and the lifestance of Humanism to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.​

Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. The joining of individuality with interdependence enriches our lives, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all.

Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community. We seek to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability, and we support a just distribution of nature’s resources and the fruits of human effort so that as many as possible can enjoy a good life.​

Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature’s integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.​

Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.​
 
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