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Eternal Punishment - Bible Study

Continued from post #12

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What is an Age? A period of time.

The noun aheeohn (aion) means "age." Period. A specific period of time. It begins and it ends. But when some translators got to the adjective, they honestly translated it to the opposite meaning, "without end, without beginning, without beginning or ending."

I would first and foremost suggest that this I at best a dubious development of the adjective from the noun.

I can say this because the adjective simply does not work in many passage of the New Testament. For example (and you can take note of these passages) Romans 16:25; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2; and Philemon 15 -- all of them define "aionous" as the world, which had a beginning, and will have an end, instead of as eternal.

But let's explain this another way.

When we take the Greek Word "lion" and it's adjective, "aionous" we known they have given meaning- from the root word age or eon.

Every time the Greek terms are used they ought to translate into age-related phraseology. Instead of remaining true to the definitional root of the Greek Word, the King James translators took anon and aionous and subjectively translated the terms depending on the context of what the passage was talking about and according to the religious traditions of their day!

Why would they do this? Because they were intent on maintaining doctrinal purity as they translated.

In most cases, this proved beneficial and congruent but in the cast of eternal punishment , it was a fail. So along comes these other scholars (like Roherham, and Young or Wehmouth) and instead of translating Greek words into English words they thought fit best, they produced literal translation of each Greek word every time it showed up in the text.

Therefore, Rotherham, and (other literal) translations read consistently regarding the Greek. Every time we come across the Greek word axons or aionious in them we find an age-related definition. But with the King James (and others) which took up doctrinal causes as their priority, we are presented with prejudicial confusion.
 
Continued from post #13

Why do I say this?

Because of the King James translators, instead of ever translating axons and aionious in terms of the English word, "Age" ( a period of time with a beginning and an end) they translate the terms 197 times using all of the following English words.

For the noun Aion they used the English words:

Ever (72 times)

World (40)

NEVER (7)

Evermore (2)

Course (1)

And for the adjective, they translated the Greek word aionous

Eternal (42)

Everlasting (25)

World (3)

and Ever (1)

Only twice out of the 197 times were the Greek words in the King James translated correctly! The exact same Greek word in one place is translated eternal and in another place, it is translated "never," and in another, it is translated, "world." Amazing!

There are forty places in the King James were the Greek Word anon is translated "world." The greek word for world is Kosmos, not lion.

Aion means age.

So if we read these literal translations we discover that the Bible, from the Greek, literally does not teach eternality of the lake of fire but an "age-abiding" term in the lake of fire. This makes sense when human go tot a place that was created for SAtan and his angels.

"The smoke ascends up unto the ages of ages, not forever and ever."

Reading the Greek properly, we would read the following passage like this:

God has a "purpose for the ages" - Ephesians 3:11

He is the "King of the ages" 1 Timothy 1:17

He prepared "the ages by His Word" Hebrews 11:3

A final thought:

There are two very simple Greek words that would have cleared all of this up had they been used. They are akatalousand aperantos. They both clearly mean endless.

1 Timothy speaks of endless genealogies (akatalous) and Hebrews 7:16 speaks of the power of an endless life (apernatos). The word immortal (athanatos) and immortality (aptharsia) also indicate never-ending-ness but none of these clearly defined terms (which denote eternal and endless) are ever used to describe hell, damnation, punishment for sin, or a time in the Lake of fire.
 
Continued from post #14

Additionally, there are two simple prevalent adverbs in the New Testament which would have made the argument decisive regarding punishment being eternal - aei (which means always) and Pantote (which means evermore) but again neither of them are ever used to described damnation, hell, punishment for sin, or time in the Lake of Fire.

It is of interested that the super strong phrase "to the uttermost" is used only once. Does it describe hell? Or punishment in the lake of fire? Nope - Neither. It describes God's ability at saving us.

Judge 25 says the glory of Christ shall last "to ALL the ages . . ." had this been applied only once to punishment the argument would be over.

But it's not.
 
Post continued from #15

The Greek phrase "for perpetuity" could have also been used to describe the Lake of Fire punishment - but is is only used to describe God and ultimate santification.

No Greek word that truly is used to describe forever, forevermore, evermore, always, endless, to the uttermost, etc. is ever connected to after-life punishment . . . but the terms are related to age (to a beginning and an end) are.


Let's conclude with a statement from the book of THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT ( edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan).

"In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . ." (pg 16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Tessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ. The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgement and condemnation, death, and destruction, Hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1 Timothy 2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ's cross (Colossians 1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Corinthians 15:28)."

So there are some of the thoughts on the second perspective we have to consider relative to hell, the lake of Fire, or what we collectively call afterlife punishment and how they applied to the people in Jesus day.

But there's more. A lot more, which we will summarize here.

Thus far we have asked, "Is Hell eternal?" And biblically speaking, the answer is "Not, it is not. Hell gives up her dead at the Great White Throne judgement." We know this from Revelation 20:13. Check it and see.
 
Continued from post #17

If we say they will get out, we face some degree or another picturing universalism. But if we say they will never, ever get out, we are left with the subsequent questions that bear some weight like: "Are those in the Lake of Fire (who from what Jesus says encompassed most of humanity) "literally burned" with "Literal flames of fire" "Forever and ever and ever" in the worst pain and anguish imaginable and without end?"

OR

"Are they annihilated? Burning so deep and badly that they ultimately and totally consumed?"

Or

"After a time of purposeful suffering aimed at purging and not punishment, are they let out, only to come to faith and enter His all in all at some level or another?"

The idea of no after-life loses or purging is not an option and since we know that God is just and all will reap what they have sown in this life we must dig deeper. Hang with me.

  • There are four passages in the book of Revelation (which is the only book that mentions the Lake of Fire) which tie in a unique word to that place - brimstone.
  • Revelation 14:10; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 21:8
  • The word brimstone was translated from the Greek word "theion" - T-H-E-I-O-N.
  • You probably recognize the Greek word - "These" - means God - and it's where we get the word "theology," which means the study of God.
  • Additionally, the Greek word THEIOS means divine.
  • So it is really easy to see that the word brimstone, which comes from the greek word THEION is in the family with other Greek words used to describe God.
  • In Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament, the word brimstone is defined as fire from heaven used to purify.
  • IF you check Strong's Concordance (or Thayers) you will discover that brimstone is connected to God's divine power to purify NOT punish.
  • So we have to also ask, is the fire
- For punishment or purging

- for torture or trying

- for cruelty or for correction?

To the next Post: #19
 
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Continued from post #17

  • As an interesting aside, where is the Lake of Fire actually located?
  • There are passages in Revelation 14 that might surprise you where the fire and brimstone exists, or at least who is present amidst them.
- Revelation 14:9-11 "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of GOd, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascenders up forever and ever: and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever recievth the mark of his name."
  • From these passages, we can see that those tormented in fire and brimstone are "in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb!"
  • We know from scripture that God does not take pleasure in this type of death - in any death of the sinner and wicked.
  • Ezekiel 33:11 reads
- "Say unto them, As I live saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye, from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

- 2 Samuel 14:14 says something interesting, in my opinion alluding to God and His ways of redemption, saying "For we must need die, and are as water split from the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him."

  • From all these passages and the information they provide, it seems we see the lake as having a few different elements present that what we might have thought were there before.
  • We have been taught by almost every faction of modern Christianity that the Lake of Fire is God tormenting Evil men for the sake of cruel punishment.
  • Listen - this assessment is absolutely correct . . . if the fire is literal and unending.
  • It certainly couldn't be LOVE that forces most of the world of unbeliever into the flames If they never get out right?
  • But we can say it is HIs Love, if they do and will get out.
  • In other words, if those who do not receive Christ shed blood in this life - those who die unsaved - are banished to eternal torments and fires, those torments must (MUST) be based in cruelty and torture . . . because they have no redemptive value.

  • So let's take a look at the word "tormented" in Revelation 14:10 - the passage that says they "will be tormented by fire and brimstone in the Holy Angels and Lambs Presence."
 
Continued from post #19

Ready for this?

  • The word translated tormented in Strongs, Vines, and Thayers is "basinizo" which comes from the Greek word that literally means "to put to the test by rubbing on the touchstone."
  • Touchstones are pieces of rock or flint that are used to grind off elements or particles in the processing of alloys or other metals.
  • From this definition, we can see that the process in the Lake is not one of a mindless, endless torture for the sake of cruelty but one refining, purging, rubbing off the rough edges, so the speak.
I find this interesting because in it we discover real meaning - loving meaning - in something Jesus says in Matthew 21:44. Here Jesus had just given the parable of the wicked husbandman to the scribes and Pharisees. He ends the parable by telling these religious leaders - "Therefore I say unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation brining forth the fruits thereof."

  • They had the True Messiah come and they rejected Him and therefore, Jesus tells them, the Kingdom is going to be taken from them and given to another nation (the Gentiles) which would bring forth fruit.
  • Then he says something interesting relative to this touchstone concept in the very next verse:
- "Whoever shall fail on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."

  • The nation refused to fall upon Him the Rock or stone and humbly receive Him. Therefore, He says, the other option is He will fall on them and grind them to powder.
  • I would suggest, in light of the meaning Torments found in Revelation 14, and the fact that those in the Lake of Fire will be subject to brimstone and fire in the presence of the Holy Angels and the Lamb that again, we are talking about - painful mandatory refinement - grinding them down upon the willful - a grinding that, producing friction simultaneously produces heat or fire.
Some things to think about.

  • We also note that Jesus and His apostles are constantly, warning the people of their day and age that "the wrath of God was to come" upon them.
  • It will be poured out on those who reject His Son.
  • Revelation speaks of this wrath, and fierce anger of GOd, as being contained in a cup - a container of limited dimensions.
  • A loving, forgiving, long-suffering God would not have wrath that runs like a river forever. It is limited, justly appropriate to the crime, and delivered in appropriate amounts - like strips that come to some as a few, and to others as many (Jesus said that).
 
Continued from previous post 20.

We could stop here . . . but we won't.

  • There are a couple more concepts that must be addressed in this matter to help round out our understanding of after-life punishment that would be heaped out upon those who rejected Jesus and His apostles (in that day in age)
  • There are two basic Greek words for the will of God - THELEMA and BOULEMA.
  • Thelma is essentially defined as "God's gracious design and it is indicative of his desires. His desired will. In this word, we see connections to the Greek word These or God.
  • The second word, Boulemea, is His deliberate design or His purposed will.
  • Again, Thelema his desired will.
  • Boulema his purposed will - what will not be altered.
  • If we look at 1 Timothy 2:3-4 we will read
- "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to hbe saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth."

  • The English word "Will" here is taken from Greek thelo (as in Thelma) He desires that all men to be saved.
  • Now, if eternal punishment is a reality, God will not have His desires accomplished and all men will not be saved - in fact, only a few. This is the standard rationale of most (Arminian) Christians - " God is love and He desires all to be saved, but His Desires (due to the free will of man) will not be met."
  • Does this response differ from your earlier view that God will have all his desires accomplished?
  • Let's get a little more emphatic here.
  • God to 2 Peter 3:9. There we read:
- "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some mean count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

  • Where it says that God is NOT WILLING that ANY should perish, are we talking Thelema again, "That he does not desire any should perish?"
  • No. The greek word is Boulema - His purposes and expressed will shall be done!
  • In other words, God will NOT allow any to perish ever!
  • From these two passages, we see that it is both God's desire and His purpose that none should perish, but all should come to repentance and be saved.
  • From these passages (and passages like these) we are confronted with a serious breach if intellectual, biblical, and spiritual integrity is not maintained.

  • What is the breach?
  • The teaching that a sovereign God, who knew and knows all things from the beginning to the end would fail to see His loving and good desires and purposes fulfilled through His foreknowledge of our freewill choices given to us by Him!
  • This is an impossible contradiction.
  • Calvinist (see Calvinism : For more - the-christian-anarchist-crookbook) meet it by saying this Sovereign God's desires and purposes are accomplished in that He has predestined some to burn in hell forever, ignoring the fact that He is love and mercy. But the Bible suggest otherwise.
  • In and through this beautiful approach, God maintains LOVE, SOVEREIGNTY, A RESPECT for FREE WILL, and JUSTICE while having his pleasures and desires completely and fully met that none would perish.
 
Continued from post #21

Another point to consider.

  • In light of all we have talked about I find new meaning in the term "lost."
  • In the Old Testament, all were lost as well went to Sheol, the covered place, which was separated from God. In the New Testament Jesus came to the "lost sheep of the House of Israel" and gave Himself so they could escape end-time judgement which was going to fall on that generation and be saved from after-life purging - be saved.
Today the world is divided into those who have found and those who remain lost to the world.

  • Seeing the redemptive work of our King through these respective views enables us to see those who have yet oto believe s lost due to a lack of faith and not due to sin in the sense of a numbered and categorized hierarchy of sin.
  • This is important because we as believers start looking out at the world as "the Sinful" and the "unforgiven" and themselves as "the Worthy," it is easy to forget that our righteousness has come by His grace through Faith.
  • If we are able to see the rest of the world as failing in faith (and therefore lost due to spiritual blindness) it enables us to retain a modicum of humility and gratitude fro Him who redeemed us and keeps us from looking down our noses at those who have yet (I emphasize YET) . . . to be found.
  • In other words, if we see people as "lost" it merely means they are temporarily separated from the Good Shepherd who owns them and in time they will be found.
  • And here's the key - a Good shepherd would never abandon the search and return of those who are His.
  • In Luke 15:4 Jesus said:
- "What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layette it on his shoulder, rejoicing.And when he cometh home, he callers together his friends and neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons which need no repentance."
 
Continued from post #22,

  • Let's dig deeper and talk about the terms lost, perish, and destroy as they are used in scripture.
- In Luke 13:3 Jesus says (KJV)" . . . except ye repent, you shall all likewise "perish."

- 2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost." And James 4:12 says: - There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.

  • These words sound definite and complete, don't they? But all of these words come form the Greek word, apollumi. (Appolomee)
  • Unfortunately, some have assigned meaning to this Greek term that is not consistently applied. For example, in my PowerBible software, it suggest that "apololamee" means to obliterate. In a sense it does because the better definitions mean "ruin" ,and "loss," but it does not mean total extinction.
  • We can prove this through other passages of scripture. For example in the story of the Lost Sheep, Jesus tell, the Greek word for lost is apoloomai.
  • In the story of the prodigal son the word is "apollomai," and in Luke 19:!0, where Jesus says
- "For the Son of Man is come to seek and to save that which was lost," the word is the same.
  • It obviously does NOT mean totally destroyed or completely perished, but simply suffering loss.

Two more points.

  • The first is Psalms
  • When I read them I am able to hear the heart of God shining through.
Admittedly, I have come across a number of them that give me pause. For instance:

- Psalms 2:7-8 " I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten tee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thing inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth from thy possession."

- Psalms 22:27-28 "All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the ORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. For the Kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations."

- Psalm 24:1 "The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world and they that dwell therein."

- Psalm 65:2 "O though that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come."

- Psalm 68:18 "The heavens are thing, the earth also is thing: as for the world and the fulness thereof, though hast founded them."

- Psalm 86:8-10 "Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works. All nations whom those hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name. For thou art great, and doest wondrous things; thou art God alone."
  • And of course,
- Isaiah 45:22-24 "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is non else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed."

  • Didn't Paul say love never fails? If God is love, can He, will He, ever fail to bring about His goodwill and pleasure?
  • Doesn't the Word say that Death will be swallowed up in victory?
Would this include the second death where only loss and purging occurs? I would suggest so. No death or any kind can escape the victory of Christ on the cross.
 
Continued from post #23

Many people in response to all of this, will scream:

"But God is Just! God is Just!"

He certainly is. And because He is Just He sent His Son, a Son who not only saved all men, He is a Son before whom "every knee will bound and every tonite will confess."

Do you know what James, Jesus brother said about Mercy and Justice?

He says, "Mercy Triumphs over Judgment."

Let's wrap all this up and hear from some of the mean known as Early Church Fathers - men who believed and were around after the last living apostle died his physical death. Admittedly, being men, they made some mistakes. But they were willing to voice their opinions on the topic and were not castigated as heretical when they did.

I would suggest, prior to reading them, that the doctrine of endless eternal punishment was a rarity among the believers in the earliest centuries of the post-apostolic church and it was the Roman and Greek traditions that helped bring such ideas to the church over time.

In fact, it was Augustine (in 354-430 AD) who was one of the first to truly popularize the teaching of eternal punishment.

Proving the teaching was still around in the Church when Augustine was alive let's first hear a quote from him which says:

"And now I see I must have a gentle disputation with certain tender hearts of our own religion, who are unwilling to believe that everlasting punishment will be inflicted, either on all those whom the just Judge shall condemn to the pains of hell or even on some of them."

Augustine aside, the earliest church fathers tended to believe that the torments were purposeful, and aimed at purging and cleanings rather than cruelty and suffering for suffering's sake.

These thoughts all fell under what was known as the "restitution of all things" (which interestingly enough, Paul refers to frequently but never mentions referring to all things original prior to the fall but he does not mention hell.) It wasn't until 533 AD that an official attempt was made to rid the world of the "restitution of all things idea." By this time most of the men (who dominated Christianity) couldn't even read Greek. Anyway . . .



Irenaeus (130AD-200AD), who wrote intimately of Polycarp and who was a close friend of the Apostle John, revealed through his writings a belief in "an ultimate reconciliation of all things back to God."



Clement of Alexandria (185 AD - 254 AD) wrote:

"The Lord is a propitiation not for our sins only, that is of the Faithful, but also for the whole world. Therefore He indeed saves all universally; but some as converted by punishments others by voluntary submission, thus obtaining honor and dignity, that "to him every knee will bow, of things in heaven, of things in earth, and things under the earth, that is to say, angels, and men, and souls who departed this life before his coming into the world."



Origen (185 AD - 254 AD) wrote:

"He that despise the purification of the Word of God, the doctrine of the Gospel only keeps himself for a dreadful and penal purifications afterwards; that so the fire of hell may purge him in torments whom neither apostolical doctrine nor dospel preaching has cleaned, according to that which is written of being "purified by fire." But how long this purification which is wrought out by the penal fire shall endure, or for how many periods of ages it shall torment sinners, He only knows whom all judgement is committed by the Father."



We could write on and on, adding a dozen of more to the list, but let's conclude this whole thing with the words of Luther, that if uttered today, would be certainly cause many scream, "Heresy!" This was what the Father of the reformation said in a letter written in 1522:

"God forbid that I should limit the time of acquiring faith to the present life. In the depth of the Divine mercy, there may be opportunity to win it is in the future."
 
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