Biblical proof that there is no angels

[Mattathias]

You’re wrong. I told you so.

I took you seriously and examined the evidence you produced to support your assertion. In response, I used the same evidence that you brought to my attention (H430) to demonstrate that elohim is almost always singular in meaning but can also sometimes be plural in meaning. Your own source underlined my point and undermined yours. I produced additional evidence which fully supports H430 being singular in meaning.

Beyond a shadow of doubt is was fully demonstrated that in the beginning God (singular), not gods (plural), created the heavens and the earth, just as Genesis 1:1 says in every language.

Now, did that solve anything?

Yes. The case you brought against me was thoroughly examined.

So why bother?

I bothered because it matters who the creator is. To say that God alone is not the creator of the heavens and the earth blasphemes the creator. It’s a serious issue that must be addressed.

Did my defense of God persuade you? No, but it was still something that I had to do.

Did my defense of God persuade our readers? Maybe. I don’t know and may never know in this present evil age.

It’s not written as singular

That is your assertion but the facts don’t support your assertion. Elohim (H430) is the Hebrew word used in Genesis 1:1. If the meaning of the word is plural then it would be translated, in every language, as plural. It isn’t. The meaning is singular and is translated that way in every language.

, but you do a magic trick in your head that turns the plural form into a singular meaning. Congratulations— you are a textual magician.

That is your witness, your false witness, against me. But it’s not only your witness against me; it’s your witness against Moses, and against all translators of what Moses wrote, and against all Hebrew Lexicons, and against the translators who produced the Septuagint, and against Jesus, and against everyone who believes that God (singular) is the creator.

It remains a trick you are performing.

Let the reader decide for himself or herself.

 

[Mattathias]

Elohim. Strong’s No. H430.

“In the beginning God (Heb. elohim, plural in form, singular in meaning) created the heavens and the earth.” - Mattathias

“In the beginning gods (Heb. elohim, plural in form, plural in meaning) created the heavens and the earth.” - Mr E

Who is the magician?

Search the scriptures, readers. Then decide for yourselves.

 

[Mr E]

Let's try this another way. Let's move closer to the fire-- where the light is better, and maybe you'll see something you didn't see before. When you write plural in form, singular in meaning--my head explodes. It's plural in form, because it's plural. It's like talking about the Chiefs--

I can mention the Chiefs and you automatically know that I'm talking about a singular team that is made up of many members. So the Chiefs are plural in form, singular in meaning.... But the singular meaning is dependent on realizing and knowing that the singular understanding is 100% dependent on that plural form.

Let me give you a better example, from scripture>>> Job 1:6

Now the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD—and Satan also arrived among them.

Having studied Hebrew, you should be able to read it like it was written....

Now the day came when the sons of elohim came to present themselves before Yahweh--- and the accuser also arrived among them.

Can you offer any reason, why if elohim is intended only to be singular in meaning, why the translators felt the need to specify and make a distinction in the text? -The sons of God -if elohim means singular God and that singular God is Yahweh-- why differentiate in a single statement?

Why not- The sons of Yahweh came to present themselves before Him?

 

[Mattathias]

Let's try this another way. Let's move closer to the fire-- where the light is better, and maybe you'll see something you didn't see before. When you write plural in form, singular in meaning--my head explodes. It's plural in form, because it's plural.

Piece your head back together and then look at the definition of H430 in any Hebrew Lexicon. Read it all the way through.

It's like talking about the Chiefs--

I can mention the Chiefs and you automatically know that I'm talking about a singular team that is made up of many members. So the Chiefs are plural in form, singular in meaning.... But the singular meaning is dependent on realizing and knowing that the singular understanding is 100% dependent on that plural form.

Let me give you a better example, from scripture>>> Job 1:6

Now the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD—and Satan also arrived among them.

Having studied Hebrew, you should be able to read it like it was written....

Now the day came when the sons of elohim came to present themselves before Yahweh--- and the accuser also arrived among them.

Can you offer any reason, why if elohim is intended only to be singular in meaning, why the translators felt the need to specify and make a distinction in the text? -The sons of God -if elohim means singular God and that singular God is Yahweh-- why differentiate in a single statement?

Why not- The sons of Yahweh came to present themselves before Him?

 

[Mattathias]

Strong's Hebrew: 430. אֱלֹהִים (elohim) -- God, god

Is there no one who can see in the Lexicon I’ve linked that elohim may be either singular or plural in meaning?

Is there no one besides me who will step forward and point this out to Mr E?

 

[Mr E]

Piece your head back together and then look at the definition of H430 in any Hebrew Lexicon. Read it all the way through.

Every Hebrew Lexicon says the same thing-- it's plural..... but you should think of it as singular.

Not convincing.

 

[Mattathias]

Every Hebrew Lexicon says the same thing-- it's plural..... but you should think of it as singular.

Every Hebrew Lexicon is correct in saying that elohim is always plural in form and may be either singular or plural in meaning, depending on the context in which it is used. You ask me to look at the Lexicon to support your testimony against me and then you laugh at it when it doesn’t support you at all.

Hoisted with your own petard.

Not convincing.

Your stance against Hebrew Lexicons is what is not convincing.

 

[Mr E]

Strong's Hebrew: 430. אֱלֹהִים (elohim) -- God, god

Is there no one who can see in the Lexicon I’ve linked that elohim may be either singular or plural in meaning?

Is there no one besides me who will step forward and point this out to Mr E?

Your source-- Strongs-- specifies for you what you continue to ignore.

Elohim is the plural form of eloah ---- When the singular meaning is intended, the singular form is used.

Example:

Deut 5:6

“I am the LORD your God—he who brought you from the land of Egypt, from the place of slavery."

I am Yahweh (singular, specific) your elohim (plural) Yahweh is a member of the Chiefs. In fact, he's the Chief Chief, but he isn't the Chiefs.

Compare with Deut 32:15

But Jeshurun became fat and kicked;
you got fat, thick, and stuffed!
Then he deserted the God who made him,
and treated the Rock who saved him with contempt.

...Then he deserted the eloah who made him... (singular)

 

[Mattathias]

Your source-- Strongs-- specifies for you what you continue to ignore.

I don’t ignore Strong’s. It rightly defines the meaning of elohim. You continue to ignore that elohim means singular in the majority of its occurrences.

Elohim is the plural form of eloah ---- When the singular meaning is intended, the singular form is used.

Example:

Deut 5:6

“I am the LORD your God—he who brought you from the land of Egypt, from the place of slavery."

I am Yahweh (singular, specific) your elohim (plural) Yahweh is a member of the Chiefs. In fact, he's the Chief Chief, but he isn't the Chiefs.

Compare with Deut 32:15

But Jeshurun became fat and kicked;
you got fat, thick, and stuffed!
Then he deserted the God who made him,
and treated the Rock who saved him with contempt.

...Then he deserted the eloah who made him... (singular)

Eloah is singular in meaning. So, too, is elohim, most of the time.

The very first verse in the Bible: elohim. Singular in meaning and properly translated that way in every language.

 

[Mr E]

On the farm we had a dog-- an old hound that we didn't ever even know where it had come from-- it just showed up one day and stayed. Well anyway-- that old hound-- if it ever had a bone, you'd better not try to take it away. It would snarl and bare it's teeth and there wasn't a soul on earth that would dare try.

Well one day-- it was in the yard with what was obviously a human arm. Like from the elbow down and it still had the hand attached. My dad called the RCMP to report it-- the dog must have found it in a ditch or something, in the spring thaw, but it had to be reported. They came and they saw, but short of shooting that dog, there was no way of getting that bone away from him.

So they didn't. They left him with it.

 

[Mattathias]

On the farm we had a dog-- an old hound that we didn't ever even know where it had come from-- it just showed up one day and stayed. Well anyway-- that old hound-- if it ever had a bone, you'd better not try to take it away. It would snarl and bare it's teeth and there wasn't a soul on earth that would dare try.

Well one day-- it was in the yard with what was obviously a human arm. Like from the elbow down and it still had the hand attached. My dad called the RCMP to report it-- the dog must have found it in a ditch or something, in the spring thaw, but it had to be reported. They came and they saw, but short of shooting that dog, there was no way of getting that bone away from him.

So they didn't. They left him with it.

Good story. Run with it.

Meanwhile, I invite our readers again to take out their Bibles - any translation will do - and read Genesis 1:1 with me.

“In the beginning God [Heb. elohim, plural in form, singular in meaning] created the heavens and the earth.”

Woof!

 

[Mr E]

Good story. Run with it.

Meanwhile, I invite our readers again to take out their Bibles - any translation will do - and read Genesis 1:1 with me.

“In the beginning God [Heb. elohim, plural in form, singular in meaning] created the heavens and the earth.”

Woof!

I thought you'd like it.

And with that-- in Shark Tank vernacular--- I'm out.