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Belief a Conscious Choice?

R

rstrats

Guest
In the closed topic, "Could you Choose to Believe in a Literal Santa Claus?" a poster wrote: "A person can decide to believe."
But once the decision is made that they want to believe something, is it then possible to go ahead and actually consciously engender the belief, i.e., be convinced, without doubt, that someone or something exists or that a certain proposition is true?
 
Greetings rstrats,
"A person can decide to believe."
I am not sure of the fine line that you are suggesting and I would not use this terminology. I can say that I believe that Jesus was crucified, then raised from the dead and exalted to sit at the right hand of God. My belief is based upon many factors and life experiences, but especially it is based upon what the Word of God teaches in simply convincing narrative and the interaction of individuals such as the two on the Way to Emmaus, Mary Magdalene, and Peter and Paul. How my belief all comes together seems to me irrelevant.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
I don't see how it is applicable to the OP. I wonder if you might explain?

Did you read it? It's only applicable to the extent that it's exactly what you asked about in your OP....

Abraham decided to believe, and was convinced without a doubt that the promise was true.

Rom 4:18

In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, “SO SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE.” Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised...
 
In the closed topic, "Could you Choose to Believe in a Literal Santa Claus?" a poster wrote: "A person can decide to believe."
But once the decision is made that they want to believe something, is it then possible to go ahead and actually consciously engender the belief, i.e., be convinced, without doubt, that someone or something exists or that a certain proposition is true?
I do not see how a person choosing to believe something is the same thing as actually believing it. They may actually believe whatever it is, but that is because they do believe it, not because they chose to believe it. Also many children do believe in Santa Claus for a time, but that does not make what they believe true. Those who believe in the gospel that Jesus saves from the wrath of God through His person and work, that it is His righteousness that saves us, not our own, did not choose to believe this, they simply do believe it. And because they believe it, they choose Jesus as their Lord and God. To say that we choose to believe is like saying we choose to believe that 2+2=5. Try as we might, we cannot choose to do that, because what we actually believe is 2+2=4. That is backwards of course of the situation of having a faith that saves, as the faith that saves is the truth that we cannot believe because of our very nature. It takes a regenerating act of God within us, for us to have a faith that saves.
 
I do not see how a person choosing to believe something is the same thing as actually believing it. They may actually believe whatever it is, but that is because they do believe it, not because they chose to believe it. Also many children do believe in Santa Claus for a time, but that does not make what they believe true. Those who believe in the gospel that Jesus saves from the wrath of God through His person and work, that it is His righteousness that saves us, not our own, did not choose to believe this, they simply do believe it. And because they believe it, they choose Jesus as their Lord and God. To say that we choose to believe is like saying we choose to believe that 2+2=5. Try as we might, we cannot choose to do that, because what we actually believe is 2+2=4. That is backwards of course of the situation of having a faith that saves, as the faith that saves is the truth that we cannot believe because of our very nature. It takes a regenerating act of God within us, for us to have a faith that saves.
Great post...Believing(having faith) is not considered a "works" of man as stated by Our Lord Jesus Christ many times.

Blade
 
In the closed topic, "Could you Choose to Believe in a Literal Santa Claus?" a poster wrote: "A person can decide to believe."
But once the decision is made that they want to believe something, is it then possible to go ahead and actually consciously engender the belief, i.e., be convinced, without doubt, that someone or something exists or that a certain proposition is true?
What we believe is always causal. It never comes about in a vacuum, no matter what that belief is. We choose in a sense what we believe, but there is a reason or reasons why we take something as our belief. And our beliefs that we adhere to are always based in our nature as human beings. Not our nature as individuals, but our very nature as humans. (All life has a built in nature.) Our nature as presented in the Bible, if we believe the Bible (and I do, but not by choosing to believe it, but because I completely do believe it, therefore choose to live, think, act, speak, as though I believe it.); the Bible tells us that by virtue of Adams rebellion against God, our nature is bent towards enmity with God. In every decision we make, our nature is influencing that decision, so that even when we choose good over evil, that nature is affected/infected in some way by our sinful nature. We may even choose to go to church and be a good and upright person and give lip service to loving God. But not in the way that He commanded. With all our heart, and all our soul, and all our mind. Or to love our neighbor, ------except when they do something that infringes on us. We always, ultimately will prefer to have our way.

There has to be something causal that changes something in us, that turns that around. Something we can't do any more than anything can change its nature. It is called regeneration, or the new birth, as Jesus explained to Nicodemus. It is by God's grace, and it comes through faith in the person of Jesus, and the work that He did, His atoning sacrifice, to save us from ourselves; and it is this faith that is a gift of God, that all the glory be unto Him, and not our self. And when that is done for us, then when we hear the gospel, low and behold, we believe it. Whereas "the day before" we considered it foolishness if we even considered it at all.
 
What we believe is always causal. It never comes about in a vacuum, no matter what that belief is. We choose in a sense what we believe, but there is a reason or reasons why we take something as our belief. And our beliefs that we adhere to are always based in our nature as human beings. Not our nature as individuals, but our very nature as humans. (All life has a built in nature.) Our nature as presented in the Bible, if we believe the Bible (and I do, but not by choosing to believe it, but because I completely do believe it, therefore choose to live, think, act, speak, as though I believe it.); the Bible tells us that by virtue of Adams rebellion against God, our nature is bent towards enmity with God. In every decision we make, our nature is influencing that decision, so that even when we choose good over evil, that nature is affected/infected in some way by our sinful nature. We may even choose to go to church and be a good and upright person and give lip service to loving God. But not in the way that He commanded. With all our heart, and all our soul, and all our mind. Or to love our neighbor, ------except when they do something that infringes on us. We always, ultimately will prefer to have our way.

There has to be something causal that changes something in us, that turns that around. Something we can't do any more than anything can change its nature. It is called regeneration, or the new birth, as Jesus explained to Nicodemus. It is by God's grace, and it comes through faith in the person of Jesus, and the work that He did, His atoning sacrifice, to save us from ourselves; and it is this faith that is a gift of God, that all the glory be unto Him, and not our self. And when that is done for us, then when we hear the gospel, low and behold, we believe it. Whereas "the day before" we considered it foolishness if we even considered it at all.
Great points, and as I was reading I started thinking how we as individuals decide to believe based on what might be the same as our "first instinct" or how something "rings true" to us. We feel it and know it and believe it. The holy spirit tells us.
 
Did you read it?

Of course, how else could I legitimately say that I don't see it's applicability to the OP?

Mark Schmidt wrote: "20 No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, 21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22 That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” Romans 4:20-22 (ESV)"

Verse 20 says that Abraham did not have any unbelief. That would mean that he already believed. Nothing there indicates that he had previously consciously engendered his belief.
 
Great points, and as I was reading I started thinking how we as individuals decide to believe based on what might be the same as our "first instinct" or how something "rings true" to us. We feel it and know it and believe it. The holy spirit tells us.
The Holy Spirit, yes. It is my understanding of scripture, that it is the Holy Spirit Who brings about the new birth, that causes us to have that knowing that the gospel is true. I will never forget the morning I woke up knowing every word in the Bible was true. I didn't decide to believe that. I knew that, and then I set about reading those words to see what they said.
 
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