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Are the 12 apostles in the B O C or are they OUT of the B O C !

Hi thanks for the reply

Again I would offer each word has meaning applied to them . Jacob was never called the bride of Christ used in parables . His name means deceiver it was changed to represent the bride Israel
God changed Jacob's name to be "Israel" just as He did for Abraham and Sarah.Jacob is not the bride of Jesus..the Church is...Jacob, no doubt has been saved by the Grace of GOD but was not in the dispensational period of "the Age of Grace" or "the Age of the Church".... from Acts 2 until today.

Let me give you a tip when trying to determine the meaning of the names of the OT Saints. One has to go back to the meaning of the name in Hebrew and then a little further back to the root of the word you are speaking of...There you will most likely get the correct meaning of the name.
Israel is the first name that identifies with those empowered with God as overcomers. The father promised to name her a new name , one more befitting to the bride of all nations of the world .He named her Christian in Acts .A word that literally means : "residents of the city of Christ" prepared as his eternal bride named after her husband Christ the founder of the beautiful city .
These words you are speaking of are not found in my Bible. Jesus speaks of the overcomers to the churches of that time period. Yes, these were mostly Jews but they also included gentiles. In addition, These churches represented church periods found down through the centuries. These over comers in Christ will be resurrected at the Rapture and reunited with their souls in the air....
Isiah 62:1-5 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name. Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

It is when Satan fell no longer having the ability to deceive all the nations of the world that a person must become a outward Jew according to the flesh. Great joy for the inward born again Jew called Israel

Many misinterpret the parable (Revelation 20) teaching Satan is not deceiving anyone and not the nations .
one, this is not a parable,. two: Satan is thrown into the bottomless pit so he will not deceive anyone as he is today..We find out, that mankind will still be evil and sin even when Satan is not present.Thus it is not his fault we are bad on a daily basis it is in the sin nature of man.
the veil was rent there was no jewish king sitting in the holy of Holies teaching us to walk by the faith as it is written (the unseen eternal) and not the doctrines of men as oral traditions
If your speaking of the veil at the temple when Jesus was crucified, because it represented how GOD could come down from heaven and be with His people. The veil prevented them from seeing Him....Once the veil was rented, God would not longer come down to be with His people...It is hear that God divorces His wife (Israel). Todate, they are still divorced and partially blinded which is why they do not mind following the "ORAL Talmud" as Rabbis teach them..
Revelation20: 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
again this is after the 2nd advent of Christ and at the beginning of the millennium to come.
Even the Son of man, Jesus the prophet and chief apostle informed us that his Jewish flesh profits for nothing . It is the unseen Spirt that empowers the believer that works in us that can profit .

A great tribulation for a outward Jew that continues today those that was hoping there Jewish flesh could profit for something. . The walls of separation fell down
???????????

Blade
 
Yes your right about the rapture but in the Latin Vulgate, the word 'Rapiemur' meaning "Caught Up"....

As far as "ekklēsia"goes, it is "an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating ;" (NT Greek Lexicon--one of them)

Purgatory, Pope....they are not found in the KJV

Deaconness is also not found in the KJV. WHere it is found in the RSV1 Bible, Rom 16:1.."Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church". Not Deaconness

Blade


And the bible is WRITTEN in Greek and Not in Latin .

Christ coming back for us in 2 Thess 2::1 Now we ask you , brethren , on account of the COMING / PAROUSIA of our Lord Jesus Christ , even our GATHERING TOGETHER unto Him >

The other verse is also hidden in Gal !:4 so that He might RESCUE / EXAIREO ( G1807 ) and mean to deliver and recuse us from this evil age .

dan p
 
And the bible is WRITTEN in Greek and Not in Latin .
Yes, but If I like Latin, I can read it in Latin, right? This Latin should be translated the same with the same information as the English, Greek and all other languages,,,,right? The word "Harpazo" meaning "caught-up" which is the same as what "Rapture" means.
Christ coming back for us in 2 Thess 2::1 Now we ask you , brethren , on account of the COMING / PAROUSIA of our Lord Jesus Christ , even our GATHERING TOGETHER unto Him >
This was the 2nd epistle to Thessalonica because there was a third false epistle written by an unknown claiming that Jesus had already come back...If you know history at all, you know that the Jews (unbelievers) were trying to tear down the Christian churches in these towns and cities anyway they could. Paul was telling them to let no man deceive them

Paul in 2 Thess 2:1-12 was giving comfort to the congregation assuring them that Jesus had not come back and the dead had not missed Him. The 2nd advent (Parousia) had not come and by our gathering together unto him,(Rapture) had not come either...

Paul was very clear on the Rapture in the first epistle to this church:
1 Thes 5:9:"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"
1 Thes 5:10 "Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him."

"wake or Sleep" in this passage refers sleep the death of the body (only) or was awake (living)
Paul makes it clear that they who were alive and those that had died had not missed their Gathering with Him in the Air at the Rapture.

The other verse is also hidden in Gal !:4 so that He might RESCUE / EXAIREO ( G1807 ) and mean to deliver and recuse us from this evil age .

dan p
Gal 1:4.."Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:" (KJV)

He does this in the rapture...No you have not missed it yet!

Blade
 
Yes, but If I like Latin, I can read it in Latin, right? This Latin should be translated the same with the same information as the English, Greek and all other languages,,,,right? The word "Harpazo" meaning "caught-up" which is the same as what "Rapture" means.

This was the 2nd epistle to Thessalonica because there was a third false epistle written by an unknown claiming that Jesus had already come back...If you know history at all, you know that the Jews (unbelievers) were trying to tear down the Christian churches in these towns and cities anyway they could. Paul was telling them to let no man deceive them

Paul in 2 Thess 2:1-12 was giving comfort to the congregation assuring them that Jesus had not come back and the dead had not missed Him. The 2nd advent (Parousia) had not come and by our gathering together unto him,(Rapture) had not come either...

Paul was very clear on the Rapture in the first epistle to this church:
1 Thes 5:9:"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"
1 Thes 5:10 "Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him."

"wake or Sleep" in this passage refers sleep the death of the body (only) or was awake (living)
Paul makes it clear that they who were alive and those that had died had not missed their Gathering with Him in the Air at the Rapture.


Gal 1:4.."Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:" (KJV)

He does this in the rapture...No you have not missed it yet!
Good post, Blade, except for this
"wake or Sleep" in this passage refers sleep the death of the body (only) or was awake (living)
Dead Christians are dead, not just their bodies.
 
God changed Jacob's name to be "Israel" just as He did for Abraham and Sarah.Jacob is not the bride of Jesus..the Church is...Jacob, no doubt has been saved by the Grace of GOD but was not in the dispensational period of "the Age of Grace" or "the Age of the Church".... from Acts 2 until today

Thanks for the reply .Again I see that a little differently. I am not of what some as a oral tradition call dispensationalism.

I did attend a gathering for many years that had that kind of tradition as my home church from where I heard the gospel and was given faith to believe. . We could discuss it later if you desire?

Names are changed as defined .Every name in the Bible was given by God had a meaning that testified to the person it was used to signify .Cain meaning; "acquired possession"

Adam and Eve it seems had thought Cain meaning acquired possession was the promised "acquired possession" that would rescue them leading a way back into the glorious garden . Then came the second born Able meaning; "vanity" They were beginning to understand what it means to walk by faith the unseen understanding of God. Cain saw no value in the first born

Or Josef meaning; "He adds" signified as a figure ( not according to the flesh). His brothers persecuted Josef left him for dead. Just as Cain persecuted Abel plowed him under the corn .Abel the first recorded martyr and apostle sent from God Also the first recorded murder of the father of lies. . a murderer from that beginning.

Jacob as a second born was used to represent deceit usurping that of the first born Esau. meaning; "Hairy"

Jacob the deceiver was signified redeemed as the bride of Christ, Israel. Israel defined means; "he who wrtelses with flesh and blood and can overcome the spiritual unseen forces because he is power with God . Previously a Jacob

Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will not be Jacob. Your name will now be Israel. I give you this name because you have fought with God and with men, and you have won.”

Esau (" hairy" like a goat) placed no value in the the unseen things of God .He sold his birth rite for a cup of goat soup. And then the Spirit of Christ used that as the second born or born again to represent the bride of Christ or called the church.

She shown in Revaltion 21 .is made up of many living stones the spiritual house the eternal. In that way not all Israel is reckoned as born against Israel. Just like the new name the father named his bride the church Christian, representing all the nations .I would think a more befitting name for the residents of the city of Christ prepared as His bride .

Not all that name the name of Christian are born again A remnant will be saved as many as the Father gave to the Son they will. come being empowered by God together we can win.

Whether Jacob was literally saved or not does not effect the law of the name change . Jacob represented all of mankind . Just as did Abraham who name was changed from Abram meaning exalted father of one nation . . .was changed to Abraham to represent our Holy Father as God in heaven as the father of all nations or denominations sects.
 
Thanks for the reply .Again I see that a little differently. I am not of what some as a oral tradition call dispensationalism.

I did attend a gathering for many years that had that kind of tradition as my home church from where I heard the gospel and was given faith to believe. . We could discuss it later if you desire?
sounds good, I look forward to it.
Names are changed as defined .Every name in the Bible was given by God had a meaning that testified to the person it was used to signify .Cain meaning; "acquired possession"

Adam and Eve it seems had thought Cain meaning acquired possession was the promised "acquired possession" that would rescue them leading a way back into the glorious garden . Then came the second born Able meaning; "vanity" They were beginning to understand what it means to walk by faith the unseen understanding of God. Cain saw no value in the first born

Or Josef meaning; "He adds" signified as a figure ( not according to the flesh). His brothers persecuted Josef left him for dead. Just as Cain persecuted Abel plowed him under the corn .Abel the first recorded martyr and apostle sent from God Also the first recorded murder of the father of lies. . a murderer from that beginning.

Jacob as a second born was used to represent deceit usurping that of the first born Esau. meaning; "Hairy"

Jacob the deceiver was signified redeemed as the bride of Christ, Israel. Israel defined means; "he who wrtelses with flesh and blood and can overcome the spiritual unseen forces because he is power with God . Previously a Jacob
Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will not be Jacob. Your name will now be Israel. I give you this name because you have fought with God and with men, and you have won.”


Esau (" hairy" like a goat) placed no value in the the unseen things of God .He sold his birth rite for a cup of goat soup. And then the Spirit of Christ used that as the second born or born again to represent the bride of Christ or called the church.

Ok, here is where you fall off the track. The Church, The Bride of Christ was not in the OT where Jacob was.
She shown in Revaltion 21 .is made up of many living stones the spiritual house the eternal. In that way not all Israel is reckoned as born against Israel. Just like the new name the father named his bride the church Christian, representing all the nations .I would think a more befitting name for the residents of the city of Christ prepared as His bride .

Not all that name the name of Christian are born again A remnant will be saved as many as the Father gave to the Son they will. come being empowered by God together we can win.

Whether Jacob was literally saved or not does not effect the law of the name change . Jacob represented all of mankind . Just as did Abraham who name was changed from Abram meaning exalted father of one nation . . .was changed to Abraham to represent our Holy Father as God in heaven as the father of all nations or denominations sects.
thanks for your thoughts.

Blade
 
sounds good, I look forward to it.



Ok, here is where you fall off the track. The Church, The Bride of Christ was not in the OT where Jacob was.

thanks for your thoughts.

Blade

It is where we have or differences as to how we hear..or say we do. Whether one is off track depends on how one says they hear what the Bible says in that way there must be differences in opinion called heresies . .

The bride of Christ are the believers. In that way the tens of thousands of old testament saints are represented by 12 tribes as gates needed to enter into the the new heavenly Jerusalem. The city prepared for the one wife the church , not the earthly corrupted it will disappear . While 12 a number that speaks of the authority of God .12 apostles (sent ones) as remnant of all listed (27) as those sent out of the city. Apostles represent all the new testament saints they represent the foundation walls. This is according to the golden measure (the measure of faith) not the literal measure of men In that way without parables that hide the signified understanding of faith Christ spoke not..

Revelation 21: 9-18 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, (Not literal measure the measure of man. or a messenger) twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

I would offer out of all the books Revelation, the last chapter it is filled with metaphors found through out the Bible. It is the only book that begins describing the kind of hermeneutics needed to rightly divide . In that way not only did he send or prophecy it but also signified. Called the hidden manna in chapter 2:17 . Manna defined . . (what is it?)

The golden measure must be used in order to rightly divide the parables used throughout the last book.

Revelation1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Not sure where the doctrine of dispensationalism came into play or why? it seem to literalize the golden measure of faith .

Most last times doctrines followed the Amil . . .no literal thousand years .A term used 9 times to represent a unknown .6 in chapter 20 .

In that way God does not number mankind or time. He desire we walk by faith the signified understanding found in parables. Again not a salvation issue more of how can we hear what the Spirit of Christ says to the churches or sects .

Each person is given a measure of faith not of their own. . the golden rule.
 
In -> receive the life of the age to come.

Out -> suffer destruction in the lake of fire.

The Apostles are in.
 
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