Why All the Divisions Within Christ's Church?

[robert pate]

I did not say that God could and would do evil. You are the one who is telling God what is evil. In my view, if God does something, it isn't evil, no matter how I may feel about it. In my view, if God does something, it is just, no matter how I may feel about it. The purpose of Calvinism is not to make God unjust. Such a statement is ridiculous. The purpose of Calvinism is to expound on God's word no matter what it is saying and whether it is likable to anyone's senseabilities or not. To let God be God rather than remaking Him in the image of a idol---a God that is and operates according to what persons wants Him to be. What Calvinism does for you Mr. Pate, is tear down this idol you have made and you are furious about it. You cannot and will not worship or put any faith in such a God, the God who is, the One true and living God. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Calvinism, as you insist on calling the clear teaching of scripture, using that name as your primary weapon to defend your idol. gives every last speck and iota of salvation, including the faith to believe and trust in Jesus and Jesus alone to save, to the Savior. It gives all the glory and all the praise to Jesus. It takes away your insistence that no, not Jesus, Jesus and ME. He did the hard and painful part sure, but I RP, I'm the one that chose Him of my own free and glorious will. No wonder you hate it so much.

Calvinism (your word for sound doctrine and biblical teaching. To what God Himself has to say about it iow) presents Jesus as 100% successful instead of only 25% (if that). Jesus accomplished ALL that He came to do and saved EXACTLY who He died to save----all the ones God gave Him in fact. Not one was or will be lost.

So you continue with your hateful rant. Try and not tell so many bald faced lies while you are at it. Since you have several threads going that allow you to do that against this teaching, I would prefer that you kept it over there instead of bringing all that hate in here but you do as you please. I have an ignore button.

Better use your ignore button because you are not going to like this.

Of all of the false religions Calvinism is the worst and most easiest refuted. You make these long rambling post with 0 scripture. All of your doctrine that you present is not in the Bible, instead, it came out of the deranged murdering mind of John Calvin who was the tyrant of Geneva. The reason that you have no scripture is because there is no scripture that supports Calvinism. The word "predestination" only appears in the Bible 4 times. While the words "Faith" and "Believe" appear in the Bible hundreds of times.

Calvinism is anti-Gospel, anti-faith, anti-God and anti-Christ.

Who did Jesus die for?

John 3:16, says, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son". You blatantly deny that, making the apostle John a liar.

Paul said, speaking of Jesus, "That he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERYONE" Hebrews 2:9. You blatantly deny that, making Paul a liar.

Jesus said, "I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" John 12:47. You blatantly deny that, making Jesus a liar.

How does Jesus save the world?

He doesn't save the world by predestinating a few people to salvation. What kind of a God would that be? No, he provides salvation for everyone, so that, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13. Did you get that? Whosoever means all, anyone, everyone. Not just some, but all that want to be saved.

About your twisted doctrine of "Free Will". Answer this. How did you become a Calvinist? Did you not by your own free will accept Calvinism as the doctrine that you would embrace? Of course, you did, or you would not be a Calvinist. What makes you think that others don't have a free will, but you do?

The worst part about Calvinism is that it makes God an unjust tyrant that delights in sending people to hell. What you believe about God is what is going to send you to hell. If you believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born, then you believe that God is unjust. It you believe that Jesus Christ only atoned for some sins, but not all sins, then you believe that Jesus Christ is a failure. Calvinism is self-defeating.

I urge you to repent of this unchristian doctrine and trust in Christ alone to save you by his life, death and resurrection.

 

[shroom]

What you believe about God is what is going to send you to hell.

Calvinism is false, but Calvinists aren't automatically going to hell.

Stop trying to do God's job, Robert.

 

[robert pate]

Calvinism is false, but Calvinists aren't automatically going to hell.

Stop trying to do God's job, Robert.

Calvinism is self-defeating. It is not of the faith. You might be better off to be an atheist than a Calvinist. Atheist just don't believe, but Calvinism is blaspheme.

 

[shroom]

Calvinism is self-defeating. It is not of the faith.

Agreed. Calvinism is false.

You might be better off to be an atheist than a Calvinist.

No. Atheists do not believe in God or the Lord Jesus Christ. Calvinists do.

Atheist just don't believe, but Calvinism is blaspheme.

Calvinism is false, but being a Calvinist does not automatically send someone to hell.

If our being saved was contingent on having every doctrine right, nobody would be saved. Including you.

 

[Arial]

Agreed. Calvinism is false.

No. Atheists do not believe in God or the Lord Jesus Christ. Calvinists do.

Calvinism is false, but being a Calvinist does not automatically send someone to hell.

If our being saved was contingent on having every doctrine right, nobody would be saved. Including you.

You know Shroom and @robert pate this thread is not about Calvinism or bashing Calvinism. It is about two specific abandoned doctrines that are a part of Christian doctrine----not Calvin doctrine--- that have been abandoned and what that has done to the foundation of His church. The complete sovereignty of God and original sin. Stay on topic or get out. Both of you.

 

[Arial]

The abandonment of both those doctrines are a step toward the Truth, not against the truth.

I also don't believe that "self preservation" is why we are drawn to God, nor is it why we believe the Gospel.

What do you replace these two doctrines (the complete sovereignty of God and original sin) with?
We believe the gospel because we believe it. I never said we believe it out of self preservation. You are talking about two different things as though they are the same thing is what I am getting. If we believe it, is because God has given us the faith to believe it. The Bible says this plainly in Eph 2. And if we are drawn to God it is because He is drawing us.

 

[Arial]

Agreed. Calvinism is false.

No. Atheists do not believe in God or the Lord Jesus Christ. Calvinists do.

Calvinism is false, but being a Calvinist does not automatically send someone to hell.

If our being saved was contingent on having every doctrine right, nobody would be saved. Including you.

I really get fed up with people who keep saying something is false yet that is about all they can say about it. They can't actually point out what is false and why it is false and what the truth is. All they can do is say it is false and give me their feelings about how it makes them see God. Which is not the same thing as saying what it actually TEACHES. And this thread is not about calvinism. Pate introduced it in here as he does everywhere---all the damned Calvinists and Catholics and unitarians too. So enough of CALVINISM!! I am not even a Calvinist!!!

 

[robert pate]

I really get fed up with people who keep saying something is false yet that is about all they can say about it. They can't actually point out what is false and why it is false and what the truth is. All they can do is say it is false and give me their feelings about how it makes them see God. Which is not the same thing as saying what it actually TEACHES. And this thread is not about calvinism. Pate introduced it in here as he does everywhere---all the damned Calvinists and Catholics and unitarians too. So enough of CALVINISM!! I am not even a Calvinist!!!

You might as well be one. If you believe that people are saved by being predestinated, you are a Calvinist.

The historical Gospel of Jesus Christ refutes everything that you believe.

People are saved and justified by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

"In whom you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom after that you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

This is how people are saved. They hear, they believe, and they are born again by the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.

Faith is only given to those that hear and believe the Gospel. "So, then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

The Gospel is the work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf. Jesus in our name and on our behalf fulfilled all of the righteous demands of God's holy law, Matthew 5:18. Jesus in our name and on our behalf atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

 

[shroom]

You know Shroom and @robert pate this thread is not about Calvinism or bashing Calvinism. It is about two specific abandoned doctrines that are a part of Christian doctrine----not Calvin doctrine--- that have been abandoned and what that has done to the foundation of His church. The complete sovereignty of God and original sin. Stay on topic or get out. Both of you.

The complete sovereignty of God is false. If it was true, the devil would never have sinned, Adam would not have sinned, and everyone would be saved, as that is God's will.

Original sin is true, but total depravity is false.

Is that better, Arial?

 

[shroom]

I really get fed up with people who keep saying something is false yet that is about all they can say about it. They can't actually point out what is false and why it is false and what the truth is. All they can do is say it is false and give me their feelings about how it makes them see God. Which is not the same thing as saying what it actually TEACHES. And this thread is not about calvinism. Pate introduced it in here as he does everywhere---all the damned Calvinists and Catholics and unitarians too. So enough of CALVINISM!! I am not even a Calvinist!!!

This has been discussed many times, but you keep saying it hasn't. You accuse me of eisegesis, but that's simply because what I see in the scriptures does not agree with what you see in the scriptures. You're convinced you're right, and people who do not agree with you are somehow inferior to you, or they don't study the Bible correctly.

The TULI of Calvinism, or Reformed Theology if you prefer, are false doctrines.

You can have your thread back.

 

[glorydaz]

What do you replace these two doctrines (the complete sovereignty of God and original sin) with?
We believe the gospel because we believe it. I never said we believe it out of self preservation. You are talking about two different things as though they are the same thing is what I am getting. If we believe it, is because God has given us the faith to believe it. The Bible says this plainly in Eph 2. And if we are drawn to God it is because He is drawing us.

I haven't said we're not drawn to God.
His desire is that all men will be saved, but not all men are saved.

1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God is sovereign over those things God wants to be sovereign over. He created man with choice, which shows He does not desire to be sovereign over man's will.

Man is not born with original sin, he is born into a world of sin. Big difference.

 

[Arial]

You can have your thread back

Thank you. I am sick of Calvinism, and hatred of it, becoming the subject of every thread I start or participate in, taking the focus completely away from the topic. And making garbage out of the thread.