Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon?

[Mr E]

Agreed.

Ever hear of necessary precision? For a given context, the same level of precision is not necessary. For instance, I’ve heard my whole life - 1/2 a century - that Jesus lived 2,000 years ago. It’s not a precise number, right?

Yes, the TC technically only apply to the Hebrews at Mt Sinai with Moses. Still, they serve as the ultimate standard in Western Civilization of explicitly clear moral code. “Written in stone” comes from the moral clarity.

In other words, in the context in which I referenced the TC, the fact of who the TC applied to is irrelevant. Said differently, do you suppose YHWH’s will is that any human being violate these unique in all of history code of conduct? No way!

They are divine, perfect and immutable.

Under no circumstances does YHWH hold it acceptable for anyone to put other gods before him OR make IDOLS, etc. Therefore, the Bible has a place but idolators elevate it beyond its rightful place. It is a great tool but only a tool; a thing of value, not to be worshipped.

The command that was given, went far beyond the idea of idol-making.

Moses was taken up-- and in spirit he saw all kinds of things, which he couldn't comprehend. He had no basis for understanding spiritual things, so he did what so many do, when they "interpret" things they see, or read, but don't understand. He takes it quite literally. In spirit, he sees (for example) the sacrifice of a lamb. Now-- we all know that God is not actually sacrificing lambs in the heavenly realm. But we have a much greater book of knowledge that includes the life and testimony of Jesus, as well as his revelation to John that explained these things. Moses didn't have any of that context.

So what he sees in the spiritual realm, he reproduces. He sees the finger of God etching commandments in stone (as you say, with moral clarity) and along with everything else-- he tries to make a copy of it all.... he sacrifices lambs... he chisels in stone..... but among those ten commandments, right up near the top of the list is a line that says---

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above...


Moses sees this written by the hand of God in the spirit, then proceeds to violate it immediately. He makes a copy of everything.

The whole "religious system" follows.

 

[SteVen]

Agreed.

Ever hear of necessary precision? For a given context, the same level of precision is not necessary. For instance, I’ve heard my whole life - 1/2 a century - that Jesus lived 2,000 years ago. It’s not a precise number, right?

Yes, the TC technically only apply to the Hebrews at Mt Sinai with Moses. Still, they serve as the ultimate standard in Western Civilization of explicitly clear moral code. “Written in stone” comes from the moral clarity.

In other words, in the context in which I referenced the TC, the fact of who the TC applied to is irrelevant. Said differently, do you suppose YHWH’s will is that any human being violate these unique in all of history code of conduct? No way!

They are divine, perfect and immutable.

Under no circumstances does YHWH hold it acceptable for anyone to put other gods before him OR make IDOLS, etc. Therefore, the Bible has a place but idolators elevate it beyond its rightful place. It is a great tool but only a tool; a thing of value, not to be worshipped.

Do you observe the seventh day Sabbath of the TCs?
You wrote, "They are divine, perfect and immutable." - Wrangler

Have you seen my topic from CyBs? titled something like:
The law, the Law, God's law and Christ's law - four different things

From my POV you are referring to what I call "God's law", not the TCs. (a subset of the Law - capital L)

Romans 8:7 NIV
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God;
it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

]

 

[Wrangler]

The command that was given, went far beyond the idea of idol-making.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above...


Moses sees this written by the hand of God in the spirit, then proceeds to violate it immediately. He makes a copy of everything.

I’ve heard this before and reject it out of hand. The commandment strictly prohibits idol-making while only addressing one form, graven images.

Iconoclasm. There is a difference between art and worshipping one’s own work.

 

[Mr E]

I’ve heard this before and reject it out of hand. The commandment strictly prohibits idol-making while only addressing one form, graven images.

Iconoclasm. There is a difference between art and worshipping one’s own work.

In short, it does not. It is not limited to graven images. But let’s say it was. Would a copy of an etched stone tablet not be a heaven image in your dictionary?

I reject your out of hand rejection… out of hand.

 

[Wrangler]

Do you observe the seventh day Sabbath of the TCs?
You wrote, "They are divine, perfect and immutable." - Wrangler

Yes. I’ve written extensively about this on another forum.

The Sabbath is the 1st commandment God gave us, a divine gift.

 

[Wrangler]

Have you seen my topic from CyBs? titled something like:
The law, the Law, God's law and Christ's law - four different things

From my POV you are referring to what I call "God's law", not the TCs. (a subset of the Law - capital L)

Somewhat semantics. There is cultural law and moral law.

Today, cultural law is driving in America on the RHS. There is nothing inherently immoral about driving on the LHS. In fact, other cultures reverse this tradition.

By contrast, few countries disregard the moral law prohibiting murder.

 

[Wrangler]

In short, it does not.

We disagree.

IDOLATRY is one of the most ubiquitous sins in Christendom. Primarily, this is because most people don’t grasp what the 2nd Commandment prohibits.

Would a copy of an etched stone tablet not be a graven image in your dictionary?

No. I believe you are taking this too literally and light heartedly. Devotion and worship is reserved for the Creator, not the mundane.

There is nothing wrong with man constructing anything. It is not the construction, the making or existence of the object; it’s the treating it as something to worship.

This goes for “objects” or things that we pursue to the point of worship, such as sex, drugs, money, power, family, friends, etc. Note: I said worship and devotion. Many invoke word games; deny they are devoted and worshipping if they do not use the words.

I believe it is the Catholics who hold these as 1 Commandment; You shall have no gods before me (including the trinitarian god) or hold objects to worship.

YHWH is to be our sole god and object of worship. He is a jealous god, after all. He does not want sacrifice but obedience. And he’s unwilling for us to split our loyalty. As Jesus said, no man can have 2 masters.

 

[Mr E]

We disagree.

IDOLATRY is one of the most ubiquitous sins in Christendom. Primarily, this is because most people don’t grasp what the 2nd Commandment prohibits.


No. I believe you are taking this too literally and light heartedly. Devotion and worship is reserved for the Creator, not the mundane.

There is nothing wrong with man constructing anything. It is not the construction, the making or existence of the object; it’s the treating it as something to worship.

This goes for “objects” or things that we pursue to the point of worship, such as sex, drugs, money, power, family, friends, etc. Note: I said worship and devotion. Many invoke word games; deny they are devoted and worshipping if they do not use the words.

I believe it is the Catholics who hold these as 1 Commandment; You shall have no gods before me (including the trinitarian god) or hold objects to worship.

YHWH is to be our sole god and object of worship. He is a jealous god, after all. He does not want sacrifice but obedience. And he’s unwilling for us to split our loyalty. As Jesus said, no man can have 2 masters.

What exactly, does graven mean to you? Not carved in stone? Not etched, chiseled or engraved?

 

[SteVen]

By contrast, few countries disregard the moral law prohibiting murder.

Are you claiming that the moral law is the Ten Commandments?
Do you only keep nine?

[

 

[Wrangler]

What exactly, does graven mean to you? Not carved in stone? Not etched, chiseled or engraved?

This is your response to my post! am Groot. That is, I speak English were words are already defined.

I am not speaking my own personal language where no one knows what my utterances mean as I have not provided my personal dictionary. Consult your favorite lexicon. I tend to refer to https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/graven.

 

[Mr E]

This is your response to my post! am Groot. That is, I speak English were words are already defined.

I am not speaking my own personal language where no one knows what my utterances mean as I have not provided my personal dictionary. Consult your favorite lexicon. I tend to refer to https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/graven.

It would seem then, that it's the dictionary definition that you reject out of hand.

That kind of means, without thinking about it.

 

[Wrangler]

Are you claiming that the moral law is the Ten Commandments?
Do you only keep nine?

Not sure why you keep trying to make this personal. Do you recognize the difference between laws involving custom, culture annd tradition from those involving morality?