Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

[SteVen]

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further.

Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers."
Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who does?)

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

/

 

[Mr E]

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further.

Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers."
Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who does?)

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

/

Bliss.

It's not that 'not knowing everything" is ignorance, and ignorance is bliss-- but it's liberating to admit that we are still open to and still in a process of discovery.

 

[Adrift]

We do have a few people on the forum who, apparently, know everything. It must be an awful burden. God bless them.

 

[Mr E]

We do have a few people on the forum who, apparently, know everything. It must be an awful burden. God bless them.

You keyed in on a truth..... "people" -- As soon as you start dealing with people, you start dealing with problems.

 

[Mr E]

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further.

Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers."
Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who does?)

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

/

Do you still attend a church Steven?

 

[SteVen]

Do you still attend a church Steven?

Yes, I do. (surprisingly, I suppose)

I have attended most of my life. Raised in a Christian home.
Church attendance was a priority.

I took a few years off as a young adult, but came back as part of a deep personal search into my own spirituality.

And I always took my young family to church. If our car didn't start on a cold Minnesota winter morning,
I borrowed a car to get the family to church. (true story)

Our church services are live online, but I prefer being there. I only watch online if I am home sick.

Are you a church attender? (should do a poll topic here)

/

 

[Mr E]

Yes, I do. (surprisingly, I suppose)

I have attended most of my life. Raised in a Christian home.
Church attendance was a priority.

I took a few years off as a young adult, but came back as part of a deep personal search into my own spirituality.

And I always took my young family to church. If our car didn't start on a cold Minnesota winter morning,
I borrowed a car to get the family to church. (true story)

Our church services are live online, but I prefer being there. I only watch online if I am home sick.

Are you a church attender? (should do a poll topic here)

/

Very similarly-- I had a great upbringing in the church-- youth groups, bible college even. And I extended that tradition to my kids as well, thinking it was important. I'm no longer such a big believer in vaccinations. A little bit of the Christianity virus might prevent them from catching the real thing.

But yes- we still attend. My wife likes to go in person, but we have online services available too, when we are travelling or otherwise not in attendance. --Sometimes I skip 'em.... but I do love the worship music and always get something out of the message.

 

[Adrift]

I was raised in the Catholic church. Later, I realized that their doctrines were much broader than God's. Luckily, while in the Army, I read the Bible and it cleared my mind of the insanities. Now, I just struggle along trying to understand truth.

 

[Mr E]

I was raised in the Catholic church. Later, I realized that their doctrines were much broader than God's. Luckily, while in the Army, I read the Bible and it cleared my mind of the insanities. Now, I just struggle along trying to understand truth.

That's a familiar and admirable struggle. We are all Jacob.

Thank you for your service.

 

[Wrangler]

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

Humility.

 

[SteVen]

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further.

Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers."
Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who does?)

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

This topic was spurred by my observation that church leaders were expected to have ALL the answers. And seemed to me that if they didn't know, they needed to make something up. The "unforgivable sin" (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) was a good example.

It seemed to me that Cessationism was also born out of this need to answer questions. "Why don't we see miracles today like we do in the Bible?" But instead of hitting their knees, the leaders hit the books and concocted a story to cover themselves. "Miracles were signs that ended with the Apostles."

]

 

[O'Darby III]

This topic was spurred by my observation that church leaders were expected to have ALL the answers. And seemed to me that if they didn't know, they needed to make something up. The "unforgivable sin" (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) was a good example.

It seemed to me that Cessationism was also born out of this need to answer questions. "Why don't we see miracles today like we do in the Bible?" But instead of hitting their knees, the leaders hit the books and concocted a story to cover themselves. "Miracles were signs that ended with the Apostles."

]

I just don't think this withstands scrutiny. As Paul's letters make clear, and as the history of the "heresies" makes clear, the fussing and feuding began almost immediately after the resurrection event. There were and always have been deep divisions at the most fundamental levels. Indeed, there were deep divisions among the Jews before Jesus was even born.

Anselm of Canterbury famously referred to "faith seeking understanding." (Augustine had basically the same notion.) I think virtually all of the wrangling exemplifies faith seeking understanding - which inevitably results in different understandings because, alas, the answers are seldom clear or simple.

Jesus did say, “Blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven," so trying to put meat on the bones of that enigmatic saying seems understandable. Ditto with the Cessationist position - miracles do seem to have been rather more prevalent and spectacular than they are today, so it's understandable that people would wonder why (or force them to happen even if they have to fake them). I don't see any of it as "concocting stories" by leaders who were expected to have "all the answers," but more in the vein of faith seeking understanding.

All of this could have been avoided, of course, by greater clarity on God's part, but this obviously wasn't the plan. And this is what people can't accept: WHAT WE HAVE, WITH ALL THE FUSSING AND FEUDING, WAS AND IS THE PLAN! (How do I "know" this? Well, because the alternative is that God is a Cosmic Doofus who can't express himself clearly and can't prevent his beloved Body of Christ from turning into a 14-headed, 9-armed deformed mutant.)