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The Rock that followed them

S

Sissy

Guest
1 Corinthians 10 ESV​
(1) For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,​
(2) and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,​
(3) and all ate the same spiritual food,​
(4) and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.​


Where did Paul get that imagery of their Rock while in the wilderness with Moses?


Deuteronomy 32 ESV​
(3) For I will proclaim the name of the LORD; ascribe greatness to our God!​
(4) “The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.​
.​
.​
(15) “But Jeshurun grew fat, and kicked; you grew fat, stout, and sleek; then he forsook God who made him and scoffed at the Rock of his salvation.​
.​
.​
(18) You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you, and you forgot the God who gave you birth.​
.​
.​
(30) How could one have chased a thousand, and two have put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had given them up?​
(31) For their rock is not as our Rock; our enemies are by themselves.​
Continuing with 1 Cor 10 above:

1 Corinthians 10 ESV​
(9) We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents,​

Which was when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent on a pole (to heal those being bitten by serpents), which was a representation of what the Rock/Christ would later do.
 
Interesting eh? Those enemies had a rock too. One that was willing to sell them out and abandon them.
 
1 Corinthians 10 ESV​
(1) For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,​
(2) and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,​
(3) and all ate the same spiritual food,​
(4) and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.​


Where did Paul get that imagery of their Rock while in the wilderness with Moses?


Deuteronomy 32 ESV​
(3) For I will proclaim the name of the LORD; ascribe greatness to our God!​
(4) “The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.​
.​
.​
(15) “But Jeshurun grew fat, and kicked; you grew fat, stout, and sleek; then he forsook God who made him and scoffed at the Rock of his salvation.​
.​
.​
(18) You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you, and you forgot the God who gave you birth.​
.​
.​
(30) How could one have chased a thousand, and two have put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had given them up?​
(31) For their rock is not as our Rock; our enemies are by themselves.​
Continuing with 1 Cor 10 above:

1 Corinthians 10 ESV​
(9) We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents,​

Which was when Moses lifted up the bronze serpent on a pole (to heal those being bitten by serpents), which was a representation of what the Rock/Christ would later do.
What is the meaning of the "Rock"? It's a mystery to me and it's just one of many instances where I want to stop reading and ask the question, then search out the answer. I could Goog it up and I will probably but I wanted to know what you know about the Rock, like I've heard the Rock of Salvation.
 
What is the meaning of the "Rock"? It's a mystery to me and it's just one of many instances where I want to stop reading and ask the question, then search out the answer. I could Goog it up and I will probably but I wanted to know what you know about the Rock, like I've heard the Rock of Salvation.
Good question, PJ.

It conjures up many things.

Judgement, as idolaters are stoned to death.
Strength and refuge.

Rock is the best foundation to build upon.
Matthew 7 ESV​
(24) “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.​
(25) And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.​


It also represents a kingdom that destroys the kingdoms of the statue in Nebby's dream.
Daniel 2 ESV​
(44) And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever,​
(45) just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”​



It is also used as an idiom for gods of the nations.
Deuteronomy 32 ESV​
(37) Then he will say, ‘Where are their gods, the rock in which they took refuge,​





YHWH is our God, our strength, our foundation, our kingdom, and the judge of the wicked.
Our Rock.
 
What is the meaning of the "Rock"? It's a mystery to me and it's just one of many instances where I want to stop reading and ask the question, then search out the answer. I could Goog it up and I will probably but I wanted to know what you know about the Rock, like I've heard the Rock of Salvation.
PJ. Jesus has many names and "the Rock" is one of them....This is best seen in the passage where He speaks of himself and Peter as well.

Mat 16:18.."And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Jesus is speaking to Peter yet He states: "upon this rock". Unfortunately most people translate this to be Peter butJesus is speaking of himself. Jesus is the Rock His Church will be built upon....

Blade
 
PJ. Jesus has many names and "the Rock" is one of them....This is best seen in the passage where He speaks of himself and Peter as well.

Mat 16:18.."And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Jesus is speaking to Peter yet He states: "upon this rock". Unfortunately most people translate this to be Peter butJesus is speaking of himself. Jesus is the Rock His Church will be built upon....

Blade
Possibly.
It could also have a completely different meaning as to the "rock" Jesus was referring to.

I offer the following;


The Gates of Hell

Matthew 16 ESV​
(13) Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”​
(14) And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”​
(15) He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”​
(16) Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”​
(17) And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.​
(18) And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​


Often we will see puns in scripture.
This might be one of them.

The district of Caesarea Philippi was previously called the district of Bashan near the base of Mount Hermon.
It is a northern district of Israel where present day Tel Aviv is, Golan Heights, Mount Hermon.

This region was pagan and known for worshiping demon gods.
Several shrines and temples were built at the base of Mount Hermon in the region of Bashan.

In this region are underground water sources with cave openings to deep dark water.
So deep that the ancients believed them to be bottomless and gates to the underworld.
These deep dark cave openings became known as "The Gates of Hades" (the gates of hell).

To this day you can visit the ruins of the ancient temple to the god Pan - the goat god.
Pan was known before as Baal, the most high god of other cultures.
Goats were sacrificed to Pan (killed) and their dead carcass was cast into the deep dark water, and if it sank to the bottom they would know that Pan accepted their offering.
If it floated, Pan had not accepted it.

1629161580736.png


View attachment 103

1629161602335.png

1629161620349.png


Several temples and niches were carved in the rock of Mount Hermon to accommodate pagan idols to worship.
This was a place of hard core pagan god worship.



It is also interesting that in the book of Enoch it is said that it was at Mount Hermon that the sons of God (the Watchers) made their pact to take the human woman of Genesis 6.

Book of Enoch​
Chapter 6​
1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.​
2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.'​
3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.'​
4. And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.'
5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.​
6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.​


It is at this very place that Jesus makes the statement "and the gates of hell shall not prevail".

It has also been suggested by some scholars that verse 18 is not talking about the gates of hell attacking the church, but the church attacking the gates of hell and the gates of hell will not be able to withstand.
(18) And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​





Also interesting is that the one tribe that abandoned GOD's allotment of land to them is missing from the list of the 144,000 saints of the tribes of Israel that are sealed in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 7 ESV​
(4) And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:​
(5) 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,​
(6) 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,​
(7) 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,​
(8) 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.​


Dan is missing. This is the only place in scripture that Dan is eliminated from the 12 tribes.

The tribe of Dan was originally allotted the land at the northern part of the Philistines (bordering Judah and Ephraim and the Philistines, shown on the map below just above Philistines.


1629161820258.png


But they (tribe of Dan) grew weary of trying to cast out the Philistines and moved to the northern region of Israel as shown on this map (at the northern tip of the map with the light brown area of Dan.
They abandoned the allotted land ordained by GOD and picked their own area up north to settle, in the area of Bashan. at the base of Mount Hermon.



Deuteronomy 33 ESV​
(22) And of Dan he said, “Dan is a lion's cub that leaps from Bashan.”​


Some speculate that Judas (one of the 12 apostles) being deleted from the 12 apostles is a typology of the tribe of Dan being deleted from the 12 tribes.

Some also speculate that the antichrist will be of the tribe of Dan.
 
Possibly.
It could also have a completely different meaning as to the "rock" Jesus was referring to.

I offer the following;


The Gates of Hell

Matthew 16 ESV​
(13) Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”​
(14) And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”​
(15) He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”​
(16) Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”​
(17) And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.​
(18) And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​


Often we will see puns in scripture.
This might be one of them.

The district of Caesarea Philippi was previously called the district of Bashan near the base of Mount Hermon.
It is a northern district of Israel where present day Tel Aviv is, Golan Heights, Mount Hermon.

This region was pagan and known for worshiping demon gods.
Several shrines and temples were built at the base of Mount Hermon in the region of Bashan.

In this region are underground water sources with cave openings to deep dark water.
So deep that the ancients believed them to be bottomless and gates to the underworld.
These deep dark cave openings became known as "The Gates of Hades" (the gates of hell).

To this day you can visit the ruins of the ancient temple to the god Pan - the goat god.
Pan was known before as Baal, the most high god of other cultures.
Goats were sacrificed to Pan (killed) and their dead carcass was cast into the deep dark water, and if it sank to the bottom they would know that Pan accepted their offering.
If it floated, Pan had not accepted it.

View attachment 104


View attachment 103

View attachment 105

View attachment 106


Several temples and niches were carved in the rock of Mount Hermon to accommodate pagan idols to worship.
This was a place of hard core pagan god worship.



It is also interesting that in the book of Enoch it is said that it was at Mount Hermon that the sons of God (the Watchers) made their pact to take the human woman of Genesis 6.

Book of Enoch​
Chapter 6​
1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.​
2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.'​
3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.'​
4. And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.'
5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.​
6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.​


It is at this very place that Jesus makes the statement "and the gates of hell shall not prevail".

It has also been suggested by some scholars that verse 18 is not talking about the gates of hell attacking the church, but the church attacking the gates of hell and the gates of hell will not be able to withstand.
(18) And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​





Also interesting is that the one tribe that abandoned GOD's allotment of land to them is missing from the list of the 144,000 saints of the tribes of Israel that are sealed in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 7 ESV​
(4) And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:​
(5) 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,​
(6) 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,​
(7) 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,​
(8) 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.​


Dan is missing. This is the only place in scripture that Dan is eliminated from the 12 tribes.

The tribe of Dan was originally allotted the land at the northern part of the Philistines (bordering Judah and Ephraim and the Philistines, shown on the map below just above Philistines.


View attachment 107


But they (tribe of Dan) grew weary of trying to cast out the Philistines and moved to the northern region of Israel as shown on this map (at the northern tip of the map with the light brown area of Dan.
They abandoned the allotted land ordained by GOD and picked their own area up north to settle, in the area of Bashan. at the base of Mount Hermon.



Deuteronomy 33 ESV​
(22) And of Dan he said, “Dan is a lion's cub that leaps from Bashan.”​


Some speculate that Judas (one of the 12 apostles) being deleted from the 12 apostles is a typology of the tribe of Dan being deleted from the 12 tribes.

Some also speculate that the antichrist will be of the tribe of Dan.
Wow, Lady you have been busy tonight.... I believe this as well..'but the church attacking the gates of hell and the gates of hell will not be able to withstand.'

you said:"Also interesting is that the one tribe that abandoned GOD's allotment of land to them is missing from the list of the 144,000 saints of the tribes of Israel that are sealed in the book of Revelation."

There are fourteen tribe names (a Baker's dozen). This way there are always twelve tribes regardless.

Dan's name is not there in this part, but His tribe will receive land in the Millennium.

Blade
 
Wow, Lady you have been busy tonight.... I believe this as well..'but the church attacking the gates of hell and the gates of hell will not be able to withstand.'

you said:"Also interesting is that the one tribe that abandoned GOD's allotment of land to them is missing from the list of the 144,000 saints of the tribes of Israel that are sealed in the book of Revelation."
I actually like that rendering better.
It is as if Jesus was purposely declaring that his church, his body (He is our ROCK) will be above & superior to their rock.
Our ROCK will entomb their rock to the underworld.


Which aligns well with:

Deuteronomy 32 ESV
(37) Then he will say, ‘Where are their gods, the rock in which they took refuge,


There are fourteen tribe names (a Baker's dozen). This way there are always twelve tribes regardless.

Dan's name is not there in this part, but His tribe will receive land in the Millennium.

Blade
True.
But of all the places 12 tribes are listed, this is the only place Dan is excluded.
 
I actually like that rendering better.
It is as if Jesus was purposely declaring that his church, his body (He is our ROCK) will be above & superior to their rock.
Our ROCK will entomb their rock to the underworld.


Which aligns well with:

Deuteronomy 32 ESV
(37) Then he will say, ‘Where are their gods, the rock in which they took refuge,
sometimes reading it literally, actually works.

True.
But of all the places 12 tribes are listed, this is the only place Dan is excluded.
WHat about Levi...What about Jacob, Mennasha
I actually like that rendering better.
It is as if Jesus was purposely declaring that his church, his body (He is our ROCK) will be above & superior to their rock.
Our ROCK will entomb their rock to the underworld.


Which aligns well with:

Deuteronomy 32 ESV
(37) Then he will say, ‘Where are their gods, the rock in which they took refuge,



True.
But of all the places 12 tribes are listed, this is the only place Dan is excluded.
no all the tribes are listed...There is another....!

Blade
 
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