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Self-Defeating Religions

Arial said:
That is a religion.

That is not the definition of religion. It is your definition to serve your own purposes. It is a case of once again making up your own definitions of words in order to fit it in with your religion. As you do with propitiation and atonement.

Jesus did not call them hypocrites because they were obeying the religion that God gave them to follow. He called them hypocrites because of the evil that lay in their hearts, when they demanded of the people what they would not do themselves. And the greed for money and power that was within them, rather than any faith in or love for God.
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Anything that has a set of laws, rules or doctrines that you must believe is a religion. Calvinism is a religion. Christianity is not a religion because it is of faith, mainly faith in Christ and his Gospel.

Judaism was a religion of law. God never intended for his people to live by laws and rules, this is why Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn, not save or justify, Paul wrote, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what you do) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20. Calvinism is a law-based religion. To be a Calvinist you must believe TULIP, which is a set rules and doctrines for being a Calvinist.

Now you believe that the words propitiation and atonement are made up words?
PROPITIATION: Means an act of pity or mercy. God was merciful in making Jesus a propitiation for our sins.
ATONEMENT: Means to bring together of two that are at odds with each other. To appease or pacify. To reconcile.
These are very important words.
 
robert pate said:
Anything that has a set of laws, rules or doctrines that you must believe is a religion. Calvinism is a religion. Christianity is not a religion because it is of faith, mainly faith in Christ and his Gospel.
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Just plain dumb ignorance.
robert pate said:
To be a Calvinist you must believe TULIP, which is a set rules and doctrines for being a Calvinist.
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And all of Christian doctrine as well. There are things Christians must believe to be Christians. Make sense.
robert pate said:
Now you believe that the words propitiation and atonement are made up words?
PROPITIATION: Means an act of pity or mercy. God was merciful in making Jesus a propitiation for our sins.
ATONEMENT: Means to bring together of two that are at odds with each other. To appease or pacify. To reconcile.
These are very important words.
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Propitiation: an act of appeasing a god, spirit or person.
a. What needed to be appeased, or satisfied? Gods just wrath against sin.
b. Who did that? Jesus.
c. How did He do it? By becoming sin for us and taking the penalty upon Himself, thus paying for those sins. Done deal.
1 John 2:2. Not every sin of every person in the world of all time, or there would be no one going to hell. But all parts of the globe and all types of people.
1John 4:10; Romans 3:25; 2 Cor 5:21.

Atonement: reparation or expiation of sin. Expiation: the act of making reparation for guilt or wrongdoing.

So, you see if Jesus did this for everyone in the whole world, there would be no need for either predestination or free will choice. It would be done, and universalism would be true.
 
robert pate said:
What we believe and have faith in will determine where we will spend eternity. God wants his people to have faith in his Son Jesus Christ, not faith in a doctrine or a religion
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Can we have faith in or toward God if we do not have the faith of Christ coming from Christ working in us ?

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of (coming from) Christ, the righteousness which is of (coming from)) God by (his) faith:
 
Arial said:
Just plain dumb ignorance.

And all of Christian doctrine as well. There are things Christians must believe to be Christians. Make sense.

Propitiation: an act of appeasing a god, spirit or person.
a. What needed to be appeased, or satisfied? Gods just wrath against sin.
b. Who did that? Jesus.
c. How did He do it? By becoming sin for us and taking the penalty upon Himself, thus paying for those sins. Done deal.
1 John 2:2. Not every sin of every person in the world of all time, or there would be no one going to hell. But all parts of the globe and all types of people.
1John 4:10; Romans 3:25; 2 Cor 5:21.

Atonement: reparation or expiation of sin. Expiation: the act of making reparation for guilt or wrongdoing.

So, you see if Jesus did this for everyone in the whole world, there would be no need for either predestination or free will choice. It would be done, and universalism would be true.
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Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE. To say that it hasn't, is blasphemy against the Gospel, Jesus Christ and God the Father. You are serious trouble when you say that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Calvinism is a self-condemning religion.
 
robert pate said:
Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE. To say that it hasn't, is blasphemy against the Gospel, Jesus Christ and God the Father. You are serious trouble when you say that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Calvinism is a self-condemning religion.
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You still arrive at your own doctrine and your condemnation of Calvinism from redefining crucial words related to Christ. Atonement. Propitiation. The whole world.

Of course the work that Jesus did was sufficient and large enough to have covered all the sins of all people, of all time, in all the world, but it was not intended to do so. Even your own theology acknowledges that it did not, and you are unable to see that. Instead you say Jesus paid for the sins of those who choose Christ, and does not pay for those who do not. And yet you also say that He did pay for the sins of those who do not. It is not logical. Take a page from Dr. Spock if it is easier for you to grasp.

How do we know it was not intended for all people? Simply because not all people are saved as the Bible itself, and Jesus Himself, declare. (Rev 21:8; Matt 25:46; 2 Thess 1:9; Hyde 1:7) And every time you condemn Calvinists to hell you are agreeing that their sins have not been forgiven. So in essence what you are saying in contradiction to yourself, is that Jesus power and effectiveness fails more often than not, for God still demands that they pay for their sins also. It is saying that the Father gives to the Son, then takes away, what the Son lived and died to do at the Father's request. (John 6:69)

And when you say that all sin has been paid for and death has been fully defeated you deny 1 Cor 15:24-26; Rev 20:14; Rev 21:4; 2 Cor 5:1-2; 1 Cor 15:23-26,42-42; Romans 7:15-24.

Death and sin have been defeated now for the believer in that death cannot separate us from God, and sin cannot condemn us. Romans 8:1 What the Bible calls the fullness of time for the return of Jesus,and the restoration of all things, has not yet arrived.
 
Arial said:
You still arrive at your own doctrine and your condemnation of Calvinism from redefining crucial words related to Christ. Atonement. Propitiation. The whole world.

Of course the work that Jesus did was sufficient and large enough to have covered all the sins of all people, of all time, in all the world, but it was not intended to do so. Even your own theology acknowledges that it did not, and you are unable to see that. Instead you say Jesus paid for the sins of those who choose Christ, and does not pay for those who do not. And yet you also say that He did pay for the sins of those who do not. It is not logical. Take a page from Dr. Spock if it is easier for you to grasp.

How do we know it was not intended for all people? Simply because not all people are saved as the Bible itself, and Jesus Himself, declare. (Rev 21:8; Matt 25:46; 2 Thess 1:9; Hyde 1:7) And every time you condemn Calvinists to hell you are agreeing that their sins have not been forgiven. So in essence what you are saying in contradiction to yourself, is that Jesus power and effectiveness fails more often than not, for God still demands that they pay for their sins also. It is saying that the Father gives to the Son, then takes away, what the Son lived and died to do at the Father's request. (John 6:69)

And when you say that all sin has been paid for and death has been fully defeated you deny 1 Cor 15:24-26; Rev 20:14; Rev 21:4; 2 Cor 5:1-2; 1 Cor 15:23-26,42-42; Romans 7:15-24.

Death and sin have been defeated now for the believer in that death cannot separate us from God, and sin cannot condemn us. Romans 8:1 What the Bible calls the fullness of time for the return of Jesus,and the restoration of all things, has not yet arrived.
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Jesus is Lord. He is Lord because he has defeated sin, death and the devil. Proof of this is that he now sits in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Calvinism is a denial that Jesus is Lord. If Jesus had not atoned for all sin, he would still be in Joseph's new tomb. If Jesus had not fulfilled the law and atoned for the sins of the whole world God would not have resurrected Jesus from the dead and we would all still be in our sins. The resurrection of Jesus means that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and that he is Lord.
This is why salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8.
 
robert pate said:
Jesus is Lord. He is Lord because he has defeated sin, death and the devil. Proof of this is that he now sits in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Calvinism is a denial that Jesus is Lord. If Jesus had not atoned for all sin, he would still be in Joseph's new tomb. If Jesus had not fulfilled the law and atoned for the sins of the whole world God would not have resurrected Jesus from the dead and we would all still be in our sins. The resurrection of Jesus means that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and that he is Lord.
This is why salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8.
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You are wrong.
 
robert pate said:
In the judgment, please try to remember that this Christian tried to warn you.
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Quit telling people they aren't saved, Robert. It's way above your pay grade.

Calvinism is false, but many Calvinists love God and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.
 
shroom said:
Quit telling people they aren't saved, Robert. It's way above your pay grade.

Calvinism is false, but many Calvinists love God and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.
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If they believed in Jesus for their salvation, they would not be Calvinist.
 
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