1. A general policy of mine is not to define words. I speak English where words are already defined. Feel free to consult your favorite lexicon.
2. Just trying to have a discussion.
Prophecy: Spiritual Gift in Modern Times
- Thread starter Wrangler
- Start date
2. Just trying to have a discussion.
SteVen
Active member
There are different perspectives as to the definition of prophecy.
Most would define it as foretelling the future.
I definite according to 1 Corinthians 14:3 "... strengthening,[a] encouragement, and consolation."
I can't really answer your question until I know which definition you are using.
So... you knew what a Charismatic church is but asked me anyway?
]
No. I know that I could look it up but asked you for conversation sake.
It’s OK. Let it go.
Not the terms but the beliefs. What scriptural support is there for both sides?
SteVen
Active member
Cessationists base there belief on 1 Corinthians 13 ...
Claiming the "perfect" that will come is the canon of scripture.
Continuationists belief it is Christ, not the canon. (which is not perfect)
1 Corinthians 13:8-10 NET
Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will be set aside;
if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be set aside.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part,
10 but when what is perfect[a] comes, the partial will be set aside.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Continuationists would say the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12 are valid.
However, in modern times this has been difficult.
After decades of Cessationism, it required a revival of the gifts in operation.
A pioneering work. There is no reliable instruction manual other than the Bible.
90% of what we know about the gifts is in 1 Corinthians 12-14
]
SteVen
Active member
@Wrangler
Additionally, Continuationists would quote Acts chapter 2 to make their case.
And also the verse in my signature line. (under the "]")
Acts 2:16-18 NRSVue
No, this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel:
17 ‘In the last days it will be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams.
18 Even upon my slaves, both men and women,
in those days I will pour out my Spirit,
and they shall prophesy.
Acts 2:37-39 NRSVus
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart
and said to Peter and to the other apostles,
“Brothers,[a] what should we do?”
38 Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one
of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven,
and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is for you, for your children,
and for all who are far away, everyone
whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
]
SteVen
Active member
Let's give this another go...
It was representative of what was happening at that moment.
The long-anticipated outpouring had finally taken place.
The outpouring was for "all flesh". (humankind)
And both sons and daughters would prophesy.
The end of verse 28 adds this:
"... your old men shall dream dreams,
and your young men shall see visions."
1) There is a spiritual "gift" (manifestation) of prophecy.
In some cases this is an "office". A Prophet/Prophetess. (capital P)
2) Not everyone is a Prophet/Prophetess. (capital P)
3) The Apostle prefers prophecy to tongues.
Because prophecy is MORE edifying.
Since it doesn't require "interpretation". (another subject)
Churches with a Continuationist position are open to it.
Interestingly, if you use the definition of prophecy from 1 Cor.14,
Cessationists wouldn't even realize they were being prophesied to. - LOL
Who doesn't want "strengthening, encouraging and comfort"?
1 Corinthians 14:3 NIV
But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.
]
Peter quoted this verse in his Pentecost sermon.
It was representative of what was happening at that moment.
The long-anticipated outpouring had finally taken place.
The outpouring was for "all flesh". (humankind)
And both sons and daughters would prophesy.
The end of verse 28 adds this:
"... your old men shall dream dreams,
and your young men shall see visions."
Here is my understanding of this:
1) There is a spiritual "gift" (manifestation) of prophecy.
In some cases this is an "office". A Prophet/Prophetess. (capital P)
2) Not everyone is a Prophet/Prophetess. (capital P)
3) The Apostle prefers prophecy to tongues.
Because prophecy is MORE edifying.
Since it doesn't require "interpretation". (another subject)
I think this is primarily driven by Cessationism. (as mentioned earlier)
Churches with a Continuationist position are open to it.
Interestingly, if you use the definition of prophecy from 1 Cor.14,
Cessationists wouldn't even realize they were being prophesied to. - LOL
Who doesn't want "strengthening, encouraging and comfort"?
1 Corinthians 14:3 NIV
But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.
]
SteVen
Active member
Wrangler said:
1 COR
12:10 Some of us are prophets
12:29 not everyone is a prophet
14:5 I prefer you to prophecy
(manifestations of the Spirit) The scriptural list is pasted below.
If a message of wisdom is spoken, it becomes prophecy. (speaking a word from God)
If a message of knowledge is spoken, it becomes prophecy.
Even distinguishing between spirits might lead to a prophetic message.
Since the interpretation of tongues is equal to prophecy, it essentially is prophecy.
"... unless someone interprets..." - 1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV
Therefore, even speaking in different kinds of tongues is prophecy. (uninterpreted)
Tongues is a whole topic as well. I have plenty to say about that. (if need be)
It could be argued that the "gift" of faith, healing and miraculous powers are prophetic.
Usually a prompt by God to operate in the gift. Even Jesus listened/watched
in order to see what the Father was doing. Miracles were done in his humanity, not his deity.
1 Corinthians 12:8-10 NIV
To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom,
to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit,
to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy,
to another distinguishing between spirits,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a]
and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
]
1 COR
12:10 Some of us are prophets
12:29 not everyone is a prophet
14:5 I prefer you to prophecy
I should also say that prophecy is often linked to other spiritual "gifts".
(manifestations of the Spirit) The scriptural list is pasted below.
If a message of wisdom is spoken, it becomes prophecy. (speaking a word from God)
If a message of knowledge is spoken, it becomes prophecy.
Even distinguishing between spirits might lead to a prophetic message.
Since the interpretation of tongues is equal to prophecy, it essentially is prophecy.
"... unless someone interprets..." - 1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV
Therefore, even speaking in different kinds of tongues is prophecy. (uninterpreted)
Tongues is a whole topic as well. I have plenty to say about that. (if need be)
It could be argued that the "gift" of faith, healing and miraculous powers are prophetic.
Usually a prompt by God to operate in the gift. Even Jesus listened/watched
in order to see what the Father was doing. Miracles were done in his humanity, not his deity.
1 Corinthians 12:8-10 NIV
To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom,
to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit,
to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy,
to another distinguishing between spirits,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a]
and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
]
Those who are lazy and don't want to pay the price to obtain these things of value.
SteVen
Active member
SteVen said:
Who doesn't want "strengthening, encouraging and comfort"?
Unless I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say. ???
Our "strengthening, encouraging and comfort" is not something
that we pay anything for, as I understand it. And it may be unexpected by the recipient.
We speak strength, courage and comfort into the lives of fellow believers.
- They may be feeling weak, We speak strength into them.
- They may be feeling discouragement, We speak courage/encouragement into them.
- They may be feeling hurt, We speak comfort/healing into them.
This is the ministry of prophecy.
prophecy = edification
1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[a]
but I would rather have you prophesy.
The one who prophesies is greater than
the one who speaks in tongues,[b]
unless someone interprets,
so that the church may be edified.
]
Who doesn't want "strengthening, encouraging and comfort"?
Perhaps you misunderstand the manifestation of prophecy? (per 1Cor,14:3)
Unless I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say. ???
Our "strengthening, encouraging and comfort" is not something
that we pay anything for, as I understand it. And it may be unexpected by the recipient.
We speak strength, courage and comfort into the lives of fellow believers.
- They may be feeling weak, We speak strength into them.
- They may be feeling discouragement, We speak courage/encouragement into them.
- They may be feeling hurt, We speak comfort/healing into them.
This is the ministry of prophecy.
prophecy = edification
1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[a]
but I would rather have you prophesy.
The one who prophesies is greater than
the one who speaks in tongues,[b]
unless someone interprets,
so that the church may be edified.
]