How can we be perfect and complete? Is it by Law, or by faith?

[MatthewG]

To be complete in Christ is where it is at.

The be in union with Him.

Colossians 2:

Spiritual Fullness in Christ​

6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces[a] of this world rather than on Christ.

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[b] was put off when you were circumcised by[c] Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[d] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[e]

 

[Ted T]

How can we be perfect and complete? Is it by Law, or by faith?

The purpose of the law is to convict us of sin:
1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, etc, etc.
with
Rom 3:20 Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.

The purpose of faith is to bring us into Christ so He can work with us.

To become perfect in holiness we must be trained in righteousness also: Hebrews 12:5-11...

 

[MatthewG]

How can we be perfect and complete? Is it by Law, or by faith?

The purpose of the law is to convict us of sin:
1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, etc, etc.
with
Rom 3:20 Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.

The purpose of faith is to bring us into Christ so He can work with us.

To become perfect in holiness we must be trained in righteousness also: Hebrews 12:5-11...

That is right, and that law that convicts leads to Christ. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, that is what helps in renewing and the changing of the mind by focusing on heavenly things which leads to one putting to death the deeds of the body to live by the spirit. Such a daunting task for any one of us but most assuredly a choice has to be made, as God set eternity on mans heart.

Ecc 3:11 11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, without the possibility that mankind will find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.

 

[Jasher]

How can we be perfect and complete? Is it by Law, or by faith?​

By truth.

I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. 3 John 4

9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee,thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
Deut 18:9-13

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:14-15

 

[MatthewG]

By truth.

I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. 3 John 4

9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee,thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
Deut 18:9-13

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:14-15

Thank you for sharing your thoughts via scripture. Truth is good to invest in especially in spiritual matters with a heavenly outcome through believers who allow God to work on the hearts and minds of individuals by the spirit.

““Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31‬:‭31‬-‭34‬ ‭RSV‬‬

Jeremiah 31:34 And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive the | Revised Standard Version (RSV) |

And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive the

bible.com

 

[Jasher]

““Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31‬:‭31‬-‭34‬ ‭RSV‬‬

Behold the days are coming is the same as when the LORD said that it shall come to pass that when he brings a cloud over the earth, that he will set a bow in the cloud as a sign that the waters of the earth shall never become a flood to destroy all flesh on the earth, what is considered a future event had already occurred yet man doesn't see it.

6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deut 6:1-7

 

[Mr G Lee]

To be perfect is to be complete - or to have integrity.



In this instance Jesus is teaching his audience which was his disciples on the mountain here, He said near the end here, closing - Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Father is perfect. As mentioned earlier, that being perfect is to be complete or to have integrity; There are only two options to choose from.

Is Jesus telling his disciples to be perfect in the flesh? Or to be perfect and complete in faith in Him?




Here, with the disciples Jesus with a person who came up to Him. From verse 16 the man probably of Jewish decent due to what he is enquiring, saying Teacher what good thing must I do to get eternal life? What a direct and straight forward question here in which this person was to the Messiah who was the very Word of God sent to set the captives free. In verse 17 Jesus responds, which I believe He (being the very Word of God) is referring towards his flesh with this man here saying Why do you ask me about is good? Which I believe is pointing about how with-in the flesh there is nothing good about it (though inside which people had yet to know what the Spirit of God, and the very Soul of the Word of God made flesh. You may differ.

Jesus goes on to state that "There is only One who is good. (meaning God - Jesus's Father). IF you want to enter life keep the commandments." Why is Jesus saying this, if he was someone who fulfills the law and the prophets? Because Jesus is pointing the man back to the commandments which by his birthright he had done and knew about having probably gone to the synagogues growing up from childhood.

Which the Man asked Jesus which ones are you talking about that I should keep? Jesus replies with you shall not murder, commit adulty, steal, not give false testimony, honor your mother and father, and love your neighbor as yourself.

The man states back to Jesus, All of these I have kept. What is it do I still lack that I may gain eternal life? So here the man replies, saying he has kept most of the commands that Jesus had just mentioned to him, in verse 18-19, looking at verse 20.

Here Jesus mentions being perfect again, to be complete, have integrity - “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Verse 21.

Jesus again here refers again to the material means - which this means is for a spiritual means too - responds saying that if he desires to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Thinking about this, to let go of our flesh in trying to feed it by possessions it is better to let go, and to give those are in need so that the man will have treasure in heaven.

Just as Jesus said to his Disciples in Matthew 5, how is it we can be perfect? He stated that it was to be perfect as their Father in heaven is perfect. Here to be perfect, the man needed to materially sell everything he had because he was wealthy. Jesus ends it by saying once he has done that, he will have treasure in heaven and should come to follow Him.




After the man had left, - in an instance you can see a mark here between old covenant and new covenant Jesus was brining forth. As the man - left onward (not sure what he did) but went back to his material ways that he first performed by the flesh, of perfecting in obeying the law to be made right with God because Jesus doesn't say here right out they he was right with God just yet, until the follow Him part in which He would be made seen right with God by faith. That is where being complete in Him is found and it is finished comes into play that brings forth new life to a believer in which they begin to follow after Jesus.

So why is it hard for a rich to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven? Because they do not see their flaws before a truly perfect and holy God. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter into the kingdom of God. The question here becomes what does it mean to be rich? That could be rich in pride, status, placing oneself above others, not just wealth itself. Because it is okay for Christians to make money, and save it and use it as they will but not to be come prideful above others because of it. That is why it is so hard for a rich person to enter into the kingdom of Heaven.

After explaining this to them, the disciples Who then can be saved?

Jesus responded and looked at them, with this is impossible (through material means), but with God (through spiritual means) with Him all things are possible.

So what does it mean to be perfect is it by the flesh or by and through faith in Christ and resting in his works, and having relationship with the Father, to walk in integrity to be open and honest with God with our failures and to believe on the one whom God had sent.

Certainly not by and through the dying flesh corrupted mankind as human faith in or towards Christ. But rather the faith of Christs labor of love that works in us to both will and empower us to do his good pleasure. Coming from Christ.

Faith, two different directions. From Christ from heaven coming down toward us, or our faith in Christ that we have towards him earthly .......the amen two walking in agreement

Hebrews 6 call it the better thing that accompanies salvation yoked with Christ our burden is made lighter with a future living hope of a new body. Salvation is of the Lord not of us

Hebrews 6:9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Unlike those who crucify Christ over and over to public shame every time they sin and accredit it their own name .(I Got myself saved )

 

[MatthewG]

Behold the days are coming is the same as when the LORD said that it shall come to pass that when he brings a cloud over the earth, that he will set a bow in the cloud as a sign that the waters of the earth shall never become a flood to destroy all flesh on the earth, what is considered a future event had already occurred yet man doesn't see it.

6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deut 6:1-7

Of course it doesn't have any effect on those who believe Jesus Christ is still coming the future. That is something I do not subject myself to, so for most of my post people will always be in opposition to what is posed.

 

[MatthewG]

Certainly not by and through the dying flesh corrupted mankind as human faith in or towards Christ. But rather the faith of Christs labor of love that works in us to both will and empower us to do his good pleasure. Coming from Christ.

Faith, two different directions. From Christ from heaven coming down toward us, or our faith in Christ that we have towards him earthly .......the amen two walking in agreement

Hebrews 6 call it the better thing that accompanies salvation yoked with Christ our burden is made lighter with a future living hope of a new body. Salvation is of the Lord not of us

Hebrews 6:9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Unlike those who crucify Christ over and over to public shame every time they sin and accredit it their own name .(I Got myself saved )

Did you read my post and assume that I am talking about taking credit for their own salvation and not giving Credit to God through Christ>?

 

[Mr G Lee]

Did you read my post and assume that I am talking about taking credit for their own salvation and not giving Credit to God through Christ>?

Sorry No, I did not and am not accusing you .

 

[MatthewG]

Alright just wanted to make sure if you read it not, thank you for being straightforward with me, G.