SteVen
Well-known member
So, the will of humankind is stronger than the will of God?
Sounds like the kind of parent that would let their children play in the freeway, because it was what they wanted.
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Does Christian Universalism deny the justice of God?
- Thread starter SteVen
- Start date
Sounds like the kind of parent that would let their children play in the freeway, because it was what they wanted.
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SteVen
Well-known member
Here are some key scriptures to consider.
Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
]
Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
]
Wynona
Member
God allows human will.
Wynona
Member
Jesus did save everyone. The whole world. That doesn't mean everyone will remain in the Kingdom once they get there.
Also 1 John 4:18 is talking about how living like Jesus in this world in Christian love will drive out the fear of torment. People act as if this verse means it's bad to fear the Lord when it's not.
SteVen
Well-known member
I can work with that. Thanks.
Consider this... Jesus paid the death penalty for all of humankind. Or as you say, "Jesus did save everyone." (agree)
If salvation was on the basis of the work of Christ in the atonement, what could undo his work? The will of humankind? (no)
Will humans need restoration and redemption? (yes)
Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.
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Wynona
Member
Except Scripture doesn't say this.
2 Peter 2:20-22
King James Version
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
If we only quote the Scriptures to support doctrines and are not willing to search Scripture without an assumed doctrine in mind, we can miss a lot of things. I certainly did.
SteVen
Well-known member
We could play Bible versus Bible, I suppose. Who will win?
Did you do that with post #14 ?
Or skip it due to your assumptions?
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Wynona
Member
I talked about the last Scripture in post #14. But if you want, I can post all the Scriptures that refute that everyone goes tp heaven and stays there in the end.
Are you honestly willing to consider the possibility that not everyone ends up in heaven in the end?
There are some things we are more willing to reconsider than others. Ill grant that Scripture does say Jesus is the saviour of every man, especially of those that believe. I just don't think that being saved initially iz the same as automatically making it in the end.
Are you willing to entertain the idea that not everyone will spend an eternity reigning with Christ and serving Him in heaven? That God is not going to force them to even if they'd be better off doing so?
SteVen
Well-known member
That is not my claim, that everyone automatically goes to heaven no matter what.
EVERYONE will stand in judgement (evaluation) and answer for every deed and idle word. Correction and restoration will need to happen before everyone/anyone ends up in "heaven". Individual, nations and leaders (both political and religious) will be judged. (evaluation/corrected/restored/redeemed)
What purpose would that serve?
What is the source of salvation? Not our human will.
Hard to say what everyone will be doing in the afterlife. The assumption you are making is that indifference you see in this life will follow a person into the afterlife.
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