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Does Christian Universalism deny the justice of God?

SteVen

SteVen

Well-known member
Lamentations 3:22-23 NIV
Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
23 They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I suppose I wouldn't have launched this topic if I didn't believe that
God's justice would be fulfilled in Universal Reconciliation.

... Mercy triumphs over judgment. - James 2:13 NIV

The tendency in Christianity is to view the judgment as a manifestation of
God's wrath AGAINST humankind, that were created in his image.

But how should the God who commanded us NOT to take revenge act?
Yes, he will repay, but from my perspective, that doesn't have to mean lashing out
at us in unbridled fury. God is love. How does love respond to a wrong done?

What did Jesus teach us about godly behavior? We are to love our enemies.
Turn the other cheek, Go the extra mile. Pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. - Matthew 5:44-45

How should this GODLY behavior be manifested in God the Father?
Would he tell us to love our enemies while he incinerates his own?
I thought he hated hypocrisy. Is he not abounding in mercy?

That being said, he will certainly deal rightly with us. Every idle word and
every selfish deed will be answered for. We will be required to reconcile with the
one who knows us inside and out. There will be no escape from his inquiry,

The great physician will do major surgery on us to remove every bad thing.
A miracle of restoration for a soul that is literally welded to sin. (body of death)

Therefore I view God's justice as being done in each of us individually.
To the degree that it will satisfy the hurt of others we have caused.
Correction, restoration, healing and redemption for all of humankind.

A triumph of grace.

]
 
SteVen said:
What did Jesus teach us about godly behavior? We are to love our enemies.
Turn the other cheek, Go the extra mile. Pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. - Matthew 5:44-45

How should this GODLY behavior be manifested in God the Father?
Would he tell us to love our enemies while he incinerates his own?
I thought he hated hypocrisy. Is he not abounding in mercy?
Click to expand...
It depends on why we're told to show mercy. In many biblical examples, we bless those who curse us in part to give room for God's wrath.

The Creator is above His creation. We don't get a vote. Only He has the right to judge and destroy the work of his hands---we creations dont.

If you destroy your own sand castle, there's no harm. If a someone else kicks it down, we call it mean.
 
Ive heard Christians say God's love is unconditional. That sounds good but it's not. It's sacrificial.

Unconditional love can be a lot closer to apathy and indifference.

Christ gave his life for us. That's how we know He is love, not because he just accepts everything we do and every choice we make.
 
Wynona said:
@SteVen

Why is God obligated to follow the same moral principles as humans as if he were human with the same limitations as humans?
Click to expand...
That's a good question.
Why would God hold us to a higher moral standard than he holds himself to?

Example: Jesus taught us it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
What then should he do with his enemies?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

]
 
SteVen said:
That's a good question.
Why would God hold us to a higher moral standard than he holds himself to?

Example: Jesus taught us it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
What then should he do with his enemies?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?
Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people,
what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

]
Click to expand...
Define love.
 
SteVen said:
Incinerating them would NOT be putting them above yourself. That's not love.
Click to expand...
Love also needs choice.

If God forced people to love Him, be holy, suffer to be His Bride, and serve Him in the heavenly kingdom forever, that wouldn't be loving either.

He does love all his creation. But he puts their autonomy and right to choose to accept his call or reject it above His desire that none should perish.

I see the second death as a consequence of freedom to choose, not just a punishment.

I guess my Calvinist brethren would say we never choose but I disagree.
 
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