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shroom
Guest
Arial, I think the only evidence you would accept for demonstrating that a person understood you would be that they agreed with you.
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Arial
Guest
Well, as usual you think wrong.
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Arial
Guest
1. That isn't what I said. That was the judgment. Hezekiah repented and prayed; the judgment was removed.
2.Yes.
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patience
Guest
The sin of pride was NOT committed until after Hezekiah was healed. After he was given the miracle (sign) concerning the sundial - What shall be the sign that the Lord will heal me? The envoy from Babylon came to present him with letters and a present - "upon hearing Hezekiah had been sick". BTW - that is what you said - it was pulled directly from your post.
I would say that God saw what was in Hezekiah's heart by Hezekiah's reaction upon receiving the letters and present from the Babylon envoy and their enquiries concerning the sign of the sundial - He wanted Hezekiah to realize that his heart is not as pure as he thinks it is. So, God left him alone ("to himself") to consider his thoughts in his heart. Upon reflection Hezekiah realized and saw the pride in his heart - He did not give any glory to God for the miraculous sign nor for his abundance. Hezekiah realized his sin (pride) and repented.
Being healed after the miraculous sign was given - before the visit of the Babylonian envoy - Hezekiah was healed because he made supplication to God and God healed him - Before Isaiah had gone out of the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him: Turn back . . . . I have heard your prayer; I have seen your tears. Behold, I will heal you. - plain and simple.
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Mr G Lee
Guest
I would offer. .
God who humbled Hezekiah like he humbled Jerimiah.
The Holy Spirit working in Jerimiah knew he if he put his words in the mouth of Jerimiah. He knew he would work it out to the pleasure of the father The law of faith . ." let there be my word spoken" and "it was good" (Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.
Jerimiah 1:4-12 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord. Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.
See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree. Then said the Lord unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.
In that way it is God who is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desires can make our new hearts soft with the water of His word. he humbled King Josiah in the same way.
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Arial
Guest
Well, you are going off track from the issue which is whether or not God changes His mind. Let's say Hezekiah's illness was not a judgement, although 2 Chron 32:24-26 suggest that this is so. But let's just say pride wasn't the reason death was looming over him. It was still something God was doing and for His purposes for He sent Isaiah to tell him he would die. And we have Hezekiah's prayer "Remember now O Lord I pray, how I have walked before you in truth and with a loyal heart and have done what is good in your sight." God responds to this prayer that displays Hezekiah's complete trust in God and submission to Him, to do what He said He would do concerning the Assyrians, with compassion. Just as God can bring judgement or blessing, depending on the actions and heart of men, so He can give or withhold compassion, depending on the actions and hearts of men. He alone holds both those things and always in His mind. If an illness is leading to death and God shows compassion in response to prayer, that does not mean He is changing His mind. We all live or die by the decree and timing of God, not circumstance or chance. "For in Him we live and move and have our being."
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patience
Guest
How am I going off track? Since we are dealing with the "why" of Hezekiah's sickness and the "why" of his being healed - that is what I am keeping to.
If 2 Chronicles 32:24-26 is read in that sequence, then it could "suggest" that this is so. But if you read further in 31) And so in the matter of the envoys of the princes of Babylon, who had been sent to him to inquire about the sign that had been done in the land (the "sundial" - 2 Kings 20:9-11; Isaiah 38:7,8) is when God left him to contemplate within himself to know all that was in his heart.
Within the context of "the matter of the envoys of the princes of Babylon" - they came to Hezekiah after he had been healed - they brought him letters and a present and inquired about the sign that had been done - Hezekiah responded by showing the treasures of his house and his armory (2 Kings 20:13; Isaiah 39). There is no mention of the "inquiry about the sign" until 2 Chronicles 32:31.
After contemplating what he had done in not giving God any honor or glory for all the treasures of his house, for his armory, and for the miraculous "sundial" sign, Hezekiah realizes - he "did not make return according to the benefit done to him, for his heart was proud . . . . But Hezekiah humbled himself for the pride of his heart both he and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the wrath of the LORD did not come upon them in the days of Hezekiah". And that is how I read the events of what happened.
God did not make Hezekiah sick as a judgment against him; Hezekiah prayed and wept and before Isaiah even left the "middle court" . . . . God responded - "Behold I will heal you . . . and I will add fifteen years to your life. I will deliver you and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria, and I will defend this city for my own sake and for my servant David's sake."
There is power in prayer.
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Arial
Guest
Read the OP again and maybe you will find the topic. I didn't read the rest of your post. I'm fed up with dealing with the deaf, dumb, and blind who can't address what is posted to them but rely on all manner of deflections. And who keep going over the same ground over, and over, and over, and over again.
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patience
Guest
I have fully followed the topic of the OP.
You do not like my premise, so you throw around denigrating words and accusations, which is normal for you.
If one wants to ignore following the sequence of how things happened - they will come up with a wrong conclusions.
So be it.
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Arial
Guest
You said yourself that the chronology was difficult and now you are the expert. I don't care what your premise is. I have shown where it could be wrong. You have failed to even address mine let alone show where it is wrong. If you want to believe that God changes His mind and that passage proves it, that makes no difference to me. You simply keep going over the same ground as a stuck automaton, you and Shroom both. After a while I call stubborn stupidity for what it is. If you don't like it, don't engage with me.
God already has everything in His mind. He holds the world together and everything in it. If everything is already in His mind there is no such thing as changing His mind. Too big of a God for you? Tough. It is the God we have.
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patience
Guest
Okay - whatever you say.
Mattathias
Well-known member
Just an observation. People who say that God can do anything frequently go on to identify things which God cannot do, though some will die on the hill that God can do absolutely anything and everything.