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Defining the godhead - an open discussion on Unitarianism, Binitarianism and Trinitarianism

So when all of Jacob's sons --all 12 of them, were living in Egypt with Joseph on a throne as second only to Pharoah--- no Yahweh.

It was only 500 years later, when Moses has his encounter that we are introduced to this eternal name.

Adam had never heard of it.
Noah-- had never heard of it.

The stories we have -- everyone one of them have had Yahweh inserted into them, by the teller-- Moses.

There is a reason why Moses was a mess. 40 years of wandering. 40 years of believing God was in a box that they carted around. 40 years, followed by centuries of disgusting animal sacrfices.

You read the entire book of Genesis assuming it's Moses' God, because Moses tells you it was.... then realize that every Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh was post-revision assumption, when none of the characters new God by that name at all.
 
It's an uncomfortable fact, because it makes Moses a liar.

Moses tells us--

Abram replied to the king of Sodom, “I raise my hand to Yahweh, the Most High God, Creator of heaven and earth, and vow that I will take nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the strap of a sandal.

Is it possible that Abram said that?

It is not. So Moses, even in the telling of the story-- what we have come to know as scripture--- is lying.
 
What did Abraham know God as?

When Abram was ninety-nine years old God appeared to him and said, “I am the Sovereign God."

Shadday El -the Almighty

Then, the story of Abraham goes on to say that "Yahweh" (Moses, the teller informing us...) appeared to Abraham while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent and he looked up and saw three men--- He runs out and bows low to the ground and says-- My Lord......

The story goes on, and Abraham is sitting with the men outside while Sarah is in the tent cooking and they hear her laugh at the suggestion that she is going to have a son..... and Abraham says --Yahweh is the one who then asked-- Why did your Sarah laugh?

So now-- according to MOSES, not Abraham (who didn't know God by this name) but according to MOSES it's Yahweh and friends sitting there chatting with Moses.

This doesn't pass the smell test.
 
Moses (and the translators) can't even keep the story straight.

It twists and turns the text where one minute it's 3 men, and then it's Abraham speaking to Yahweh -Big LORD), the next to little Lord- pleading for the people of Sodom with Yahweh answering. It's a mess.

Everytime Moses tells us it's Yahweh saying this or that to Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Adam, Noah et. al. it should be treated as suspect.
 
Mr E said:
Moses (and the translators) can't even keep the story straight.

It twists and turns the text where one minute it's 3 men, and then it's Abraham speaking to Yahweh -Big LORD), the next to little Lord- pleading for the people of Sodom with Yahweh answering. It's a mess.

Everytime Moses tells us it's Yahweh saying this or that to Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Adam, Noah et. al. it should be treated as suspect.
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When Abraham it persuaded that he has to sacrifice his son---- does that really sound like God instructing him?

By the way-- it isn't Yahweh that stops him. It's an angel.
 
Caught in another lie-- Moses tells us of Jacob's dream encounter with Yahweh.

Impossible, as we know from Exodus 6 that Jacob had never heard the name, but Moses tells us-- God speaks to Jacob in the dream and tells him--

He said, “I am Yahweh, the God of your grandfather Abraham and the God of your father Isaac.

Liars can never keep their stories straight.
 
RedFan said:
I think @Wrangler considers God's words in v. 14 as a stand-alone commentary on His nature rather than an answer to Moses's question.
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That's very good since that is what I wrote. :ninja:

Please confirm your rationale. Ex 3:15 has God saying YHWH is my name but you reject this on the grounds of what the eternal name means. 🤪
 
And as the end to Moses' tale comes to a close-- we get a historical review.

Deut 33:1-2 Moses tell us where Yahweh came from. If you said -"Heaven" you would be wrong.

“Yahweh came from Sinai."

You can decide for yourself--- Yahweh was either sent by the moon god, or he's Saudi Arabian.
 
Mr E said:
Not just Abraham. You should read the entire life story of Issac and Jacob as well, and erase the name Yahweh from the record-- because none of them had ever heard of this name that was supposedly God's name always and forever. I'm telling you, the one Moses followed is not the same one that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob-- and Jesus called God. They certainly didn't call Him Yahweh. That is a fact.
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This gets back to something I was saying earlier.
God goes by many names.

.
 
Wrangler said:
All Biblical AND Conflicting? And you ask if I'm serious. Wow.
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Yes.
If someone has biblical support for their doctrinal position, then it is a biblical doctrine. IMHO
I don't agree with your position, but I do consider it to be biblical. (you have biblical support)
So, both positions are biblical but in conflict.

]
 
Wrangler said:
That's very good since that is what I wrote. :ninja:

Please confirm your rationale. Ex 3:15 has God saying YHWH is my name but you reject this on the grounds of what the eternal name means. 🤪
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I don't "reject this" at all, much less on grounds of the name's meaning. Never did I say YHWH wasn't God's name (except to point out that God didn't use the Tetragrammaton "YHWH," which was a Hebrew shortcut to avoid using God's actual name). What I said was that God's actual name (for which YHWH is the shortcut) in v. 15 is functionally the same as the name given to Moses in v. 14. אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה vs. יְהוָ֞ה
 
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