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Defining the godhead - an open discussion on Unitarianism, Binitarianism and Trinitarianism

Wrangler said:
Again, "I'm offended" is not an argument. Most people who lie primarily lie to themselves, including IDOLATORS. You rely on eisegesis for Ex 3:14 while completely disregarding Ex 3:15 explicit proof text that God's name is YHWH.

God said to Moses, “Tell the children of Israel this: ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

Note: God did not say in 1800 years I'll change my name to Jesus. He said his name is YHWH forever, to be remembered throughout all generations. And he never said my name is I am.
God explicitly said, 'YHWH is my name.'
That's good enough for me. Why is that not good enough for you? (Being offended is not an answer)
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"I take offense" was not my answer to your question; it was a commentary on how obnoxious you are. Call me a liar or an idolator all you wish; I'll respond politely when you do, as is my nature. But I do wish you'd stop. There's no good reason to insult those who disagree with you.

Did you not read my post thoroughly? WHAT DOES 'YHWH' MEAN? There's no perfect translation, but it appears to yield the same 'I AM' reference as in the preceding verse. (Fast forward to the Greek of the LXX and of John 8:58, and suddenly Jesus' use of the ego eimi phrase starts to make sense as a basis for gathering stones to cast at a basphemer.)
 
SteVen said:
You didn't answer my question, other than saying "Text is ambiguous."
Seriously? What do the words "us" and "our" mean to you?
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Yes, seriously. The text is ambiguous. You want to doctrinally invest in ambiguous text. Can you admit who God is talking to is not stated?

One may speculate. And I believe you and I have already delved into this in great depth. (I could be wrong).

But let's take this slow. Yes, I am serious. The text is ambiguous as it does not State who God is talking to. Can you admit that it is God who said these words?
 
SteVen said:
The English translation of Logos is unfortunate.

Logos/logic/reason/plan/intention/meaning

]
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Dude, what is with the end bracket of your posts? ]

I'm not sure why you say the English translation of Logos is unfortunate. I've known for a long time that it means as you wrote, the root word of logic, reasoning, plan, intent. The point is this is OF God, an attribute of God, which is not the same as the Supreme Being Himself.

There is nothing mystical about it. People have a mind of their own but what they are thinking is WHAT they do; it is OF them but not them. Words from God are a product of action, a verb, which is not the same as the noun of the person doing the action. A hunter hunts but this could me man, animal, etc. Person. Result of a persons action. Not the same thing.

This is obvious and reinforced by John's purpose statement of 20:31, which undermines the trinitarian doctrinal investment of eisegesis of John 1:1. One person told me John 1:1 is the strongest argument for the trinity. I agree and it is also no support whatsoever because John 1:1 does not even refer to Jesus.
 
RedFan said:
WHAT DOES 'YHWH' MEAN?
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You keep wanting to change the subject and not admit your error. We can talk about what the name of God means all day long (which I already explained in detail). It doesn't change the fact that God's name is YHWH.

If you can only admit this, we can move on. Thanks.
 
RedFan said:
There's no perfect translation, but it appears to yield the same 'I AM' reference as in the preceding verse.
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Laps on ground already covered.
Wrangler said:
YHHW said that he is eternal in EX 3:14.
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Wrangler said:
14And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I am/will be what I am/will be] (“Eternal One” is derived from the Hebrew word meaning, “I am.”),”
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NOTE: God did NOT say "ego eimi" but "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh."

God: Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh --> "I am eternal"
Every human being including Jesus: I am.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxDQ1g964U
 
Wrangler said:
You keep wanting to change the subject and not admit your error. We can talk about what the name of God means all day long (which I already explained in detail). It doesn't change the fact that God's name is YHWH.

If you can only admit this, we can move on. Thanks.
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OK, God's name is YHWH. But do me a favor and point me to my post where I denied that YHWH was God's name. I think you will find that I never did so. I simply equated it with "I AM,' where its roots lie.
 
SteVen said:
You didn't answer my question, other than saying "Text is ambiguous."
Seriously? What do the words "us" and "our" mean to you?
Wrangler said:
Yes, seriously. The text is ambiguous. You want to doctrinally invest in ambiguous text. Can you admit who God is talking to is not stated?
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On thing is VERY clear. (not at all ambiguous)
Two or more individuals are discussing what they are creating. (Genesis chapter one)
The creator is stated as plural persons.

Genesis 1:26 NIV
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Additionally, here are scriptures that claim that the pre-incarnate Christ was there at creation.

Colossians 1:15-17 NET
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn[b] over all creation,[c]
16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created in him—
all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions,[d]
whether principalities or powers—all things were created through him and for him.
17 He himself is before all things and all things are held together[e] in him.

John 1:2-3 NET
The Word[a] was with God in the beginning.
3 All things were created[b] by him,
and apart from him not one thing was created[c] that has been created.[d]

\
 
Wrangler said:
God explicitly said, 'YHWH is my name.'
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Someone needs to use their inside voice. - LOL

Moses asked God for His name at the burning bush.
What did God say his name was?

Exodus 3:13-15 NRSVue
But Moses said to God, “If I come to the Israelites and say to them,
‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ and they ask me,
‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.”[a] He said further,
“Thus you shall say to the Israelites, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ”
15 God also said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the Israelites,
‘The Lord,[b] the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham,
the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’:
This is my name forever,
and this my title for all generations.

;
 
SteVen said:
Someone needs to use their inside voice. - LOL

Moses asked God for His name at the burning bush.
What did God say his name was?

Exodus 3:13-15 NRSVue
But Moses said to God, “If I come to the Israelites and say to them,
‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ and they ask me,
‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.”[a] He said further,
“Thus you shall say to the Israelites, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ”
15 God also said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the Israelites,
‘The Lord,[b] the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham,
the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’:
This is my name forever,
and this my title for all generations.

;
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I think @Wrangler considers God's words in v. 14 as a stand-alone commentary on His nature rather than an answer to Moses's question. He sees God providing one answer in these verses, not two. And he finds that answer exclusively in v. 15. It's as if @Wranger's version of v. 14 said "I'll tell you in a second, Moses, but first here is something you should know about me: I AM THE ETERNAL ONE. Okay, sorry to digress, let's put that aside, and now for the answer to your question."

(See my Post #203 for why I think his approach is wrongheaded.)
 
RedFan said:
I think @Wrangler considers God's words in v. 14 as a stand-alone commentary on His nature rather than an answer to Moses's question. He sees God providing one answer in these verses, not two. And he finds that answer exclusively in v. 15. It's as if @Wranger's version of v. 14 said "I'll tell you in a second, Moses, but first here is something you should know about me: I AM THE ETERNAL ONE. Okay, sorry to digress, let's put that aside, and now for the answer to your question."
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Now that I have looked into binatarianism a bit...
See posts #194 and 196
I'm coming to the conclusion that all three views are biblical and conflicting.
Which reminds me of a few other doctrines like that. Fine folks on both sides of the issues.
(and NOT so fine folks as well) - LOL

; cc: @Wrangler @Mr E @Mattathias
 
SteVen said:
Now that I have looked into binatarianism a bit...
See posts #194 and 196
I'm coming to the conclusion that all three views are biblical and conflicting.
Which reminds me of a few other doctrines like that. Fine folks on both sides of the issues.
(and NOT so fine folks as well) - LOL

; cc: @Wrangler @Mr E @Mattathias
Click to expand...

What do you all make of Exodus 6:2?-- where this angel/elohim tells Moses-- I am Yahweh. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as elohim almighty, but by my name Yahweh I was not known to them.

Yet, go back and read Moses' telling of the encounter. In Genesis 12, that's not what Moses tells us. He's inserting Yahweh into the story based on an after-the-fact claim... Yahweh was not in the story of Abraham... Moses puts him there.

Now Yahweh said to Abram,
“Go out from your country, your relatives, and your father’s household to the land that I will show you.
Then I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you, and I will make your name great, so that you will exemplify divine blessing.


Not just Abraham. You should read the entire life story of Issac and Jacob as well, and erase the name Yahweh from the record-- because none of them had ever heard of this name that was supposedly God's name always and forever. I'm telling you, the one Moses followed is not the same one that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob-- and Jesus called God. They certainly didn't call Him Yahweh. That is a fact.
 
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