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Defining the godhead - an open discussion on Unitarianism, Binitarianism and Trinitarianism

RedFan said:
That would be construing the name as descriptive rather than merely nominative.
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I don't think we should set aside that it was a messenger of Yahweh that Moses encountered. (Ex 3:2) Acknowledging the text- which states this as the case, it requires a reader to perform a jedi-mind-trick to insist that the angel first addresses Moses from the bush, --an elohim, the text specifies-- and then suddenly it is Yahweh himself speaking. (Ex 3:4) It isn't. Moses see this bush, he goes to look at it, the elohim calls him by name out of the flames and it is Moses who says- Here I am. Your copy probably flips it, to make some sort of distinction-- Here am I. It's silly. It's Moses who begins to address this angel as LORD. --Well before the I AM is uttered.

If you can accept it, the messenger is the one conveying the word of God, as angels do. And it is the messenger speaking to Moses still in verse 5 and onward- making the claim that he is the elohim of the father- Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Is he? It's a bold claim, but what if it was a false claim. Moses has no way of knowing. Hundreds and hundreds of years have passed. 500 years of life in Egypt have passed. Moses' own life growing up and being educated in Pharaoh's household has passed.

And then there is also this to consider >>> 2 Corinthians 11:14

But-- Moses? In for a penny, in for a pound. He accepts that this is now 'the God' that he has encountered, and he accepts the elohim's claim that he is the elohim of the fathers... true, or not. And even though this one says 'hayah hayah' is what you should say when folks ask who I am Moses in the text assigns this one the Yahweh (LORD) nominative title.

In Exodus 6:3 this elohim admits that there's been a name change.
 
Wrangler said:
This is not true in practice. If it were, calling our Father, our God, by his name YHWH would be common practice.

Never does God say my name is I am! "I am" is not a name but a common expression and the verse in questions does not assert "I am" is a name.

I've explained this before but not sure if you read it. Many attempt to impose doctrine into common language usage. Suppose you're at a dinner party and ask someone what he does for a living. He could respond with "I'm between jobs right now." Everyone knows that his job is NOT "between jobs right now." In the next sentence, he might say what his career is, what he does for a living.

This is LANGUAGE USAGE. People often interject commentary and do not directly answer questions as if they are on trial.

Another example of such language usage. You're at a dinner party and ask someone if she is married. She might respond with, "I'm getting divorced or engaged or even widowed. Such transitionary realities make the exchange not so clear cut but the transition is so important that the one questioned feels it important to state this first.

This is precisely what happened. Moses asked YHWH what his name is. God did not immediately give his name but what is unique about him; that he is eternal. No other God known was thought of as eternal. God never said "I am" - that is a bad translation. YHHW said that he is eternal in EX 3:14.

Like my example of language usage, in the very next sentence, God said his name was YHWH. We know this because he used the word name in EX 3:15.

13Then Moses said to God, “Behold, if I go to the children of Israel and tell them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ What should I tell them?”
14And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I am/will be what I am/will be] (“Eternal One” is derived from the Hebrew word meaning, “I am.”),” and added, “Here is what to say to the people of Isra’el: ‘Ehyeh [I Am or I Will Be] has sent me to you.’”
15Furthermore, God said to Moses, “Tell the children of Israel this: ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered throughout all generations.
Ex 3:13-15 CJB (VOICE study note)
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"YHWH" is derived from the Hebrew for "I am" -- and that is the etymology of the name God instructed Moses to relate to the Israelites. That's the name God claimed, rendered ego eimi ho on by the LXX. So "I am" is a bit of a shorthand translation. John 8:58 omits the ho on -- which suggests to me that this shorthand was understood as such by those overhearing the conversation (in Aramaic or Hebrew).
 
RedFan said:
"YHWH" is derived from the Hebrew for "I am" -- and that is the etymology of the name God instructed Moses to relate to the Israelites. That's the name God claimed, rendered ego eimi ho on by the LXX. So "I am" is a bit of a shorthand translation. John 8:58 omits the ho on -- which suggests to me that this shorthand was understood as such by those overhearing the conversation (in Aramaic or Hebrew).
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I think @Wrangler is pointing out that in the Exodus 3 text, where we are first introduced to the idea-- it's "I exist" (hayah) is the term, that Moses renders into Yahweh. As you mention-- it's a rendering and not actually 'the name.'
 
RedFan said:
"YHWH" is derived from the Hebrew for "I am" -- and that is the etymology of the name God instructed Moses to relate to the Israelites.
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You cannot be taught! I just explained how this is not so. “I am” is a bad translation; “I am eternal” is more precise.

Peter’s name may mean Rick but his name is Peter. YHWH is the name of Jesus’ God.
 
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Mr E said:
It is perfectly acceptable to understand the I Am as the He Is. In one sense it is used when referring to oneself and in another when referring to someone other than yourself.
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Either way he is claiming to have existed before Abraham. Which means what?

John 8:58 NET
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth,[a] before Abraham came into existence,[b] I am!”[c]

]
 
Wrangler said:
That’s because you have no acceptance criteria.

Merely saying ‘denied’ is not compelling reason.
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How would you know my acceptance criteria (or lack thereof)? You don't know me at all!

I haven't yet offered a reason, compelling or otherwise, for not being persuaded by your God's-name-is-not-I-AM rant. And I think engaging in that exegesis would not be fruitful at this point. (You don't need a reasoned opinion from someone you consider an idolator, do you?) Besides, you said you were going to just let me wallow in my sin, remember? So do it.
 
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