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What makes a doctrine false?

Ol' Barn said:
8. It is incompatible with the loving character of God, which is defined as a perfect mingling of justice and mercy which, in turn and unfortunately, for all my good intentions of avoiding Bibliolatry, are best illustrated in the Bible in such scenes as Moses in the cleft of the Rock and, ultimately, Christ at the blessed Calvary Event.
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Well done.
The 7 that I provided were all bogus. See post #8.
None of them make a doctrine false.

I like what you are saying about measuring/evaluating doctrines based on what they say about the character of God.

After all, doctrines are man-made anyway. IMHO
Human attempts to codify what the Bible says. In some cases, ERRORS in understanding made into religious law.
What we call a "Doctrinal Statement". Which enables us to find a church that ALIGNS with OUR beliefs.

Doctrine is driven by religious preconception - They have theirs, and you have yours​



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SteVen said:
Well done.
The 7 that I provided were all bogus. See post #8.
None of them make a doctrine false.

I like what you are saying about measuring/evaluating doctrines based on what they say about the character of God.

After all, doctrines are man-made anyway. IMHO
Human attempts to codify what the Bible says. In some cases, ERRORS in understanding made into religious law.
What we call a "Doctrinal Statement". Which enables us to find a church that ALIGNS with OUR beliefs.

Doctrine is driven by religious preconception - They have theirs, and you have yours​



]
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I think the 7 you provided have one thing almost glaringly in common—some form of the "you and your" idea which, even in the case of number 7 is implied, since surely "everyone" includes the "you."

But are you sure doctrines are manmade? Or, perhaps, I've mistaken you to mean exclusively manmade, since Scripture says of itself that it is suitable for deriving doctrine, reproof, correction, etc.

We're just having an awful time passing over this hurdle of the tension between teaching and condemning, aren't we?

I really think the key is religious liberty. And I think this is going to become more and more obvious to those who are watching and praying, lest they fall into temptation to be intolerant. It is teeming all around us, from the left and from the right—"You must sin as I sin, or you must not sin at all!" (Just a few years ago, I felt no compulsion to end that with an exclamation point.)

I simply must give others plenty of room to make their own decisions while still remaining faithful to the Great Commission somehow. It is definitely a balancing act for which few are interested in preparing themselves. I certainly have been guilty in this regard.

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Ol' Barn said:
But are you sure doctrines are manmade? Or, perhaps, I've mistaken you to mean exclusively manmade, since Scripture says of itself that it is suitable for deriving doctrine, reproof, correction, etc.
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It makes Christian readers mighty uncomfortable when I say that doctrines are man-made.
And since scripture "is suitable for deriving doctrine", doesn't that mean that we re using it to do that? Thus man-made. ???
I agree that doctrines should be biblical. But... (you what I will say next, right?) There is no consensus.

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SteVen said:
Well done.
The 7 that I provided were all bogus. See post #8.
None of them make a doctrine false.

I like what you are saying about measuring/evaluating doctrines based on what they say about the character of God.

After all, doctrines are man-made anyway. IMHO
Human attempts to codify what the Bible says. In some cases, ERRORS in understanding made into religious law.
What we call a "Doctrinal Statement". Which enables us to find a church that ALIGNS with OUR beliefs.

Doctrine is driven by religious preconception - They have theirs, and you have yours​



]
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Universalists are very much in sync with the gnostic Christians in this regard, whether they realize it or not. They hold in common the idea that God as portrayed and understood in the Old Testament is in many ways incompatible with their understanding of God as Jesus taught. There's a reason for that.
 
Mr E said:
Universalists are very much in sync with the gnostic Christians in this regard, whether they realize it or not. They hold in common the idea that God as portrayed and understood in the Old Testament is in many ways incompatible with their understanding of God as Jesus taught.
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Jesus and Paul.

Mr E said:
There's a reason for that.
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Which is?

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SteVen said:
It makes Christian readers mighty uncomfortable when I say that doctrines are man-made.
And since scripture "is suitable for deriving doctrine", doesn't that mean that we re using it to do that? Thus man-made. ???
I agree that doctrines should be biblical. But... (you what I will say next, right?) There is no consensus.

]
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Steve, I'm not even sure I know what it means when someone says that doctrines are man-made or what it means to say that doctrines should be biblical. Are there no doctrines that originated in the mind of God?

And I honestly don't know what consensus has to do with truth. In science there is often a lack of consensus for decades/centuries before the truth about a discipline is reached. But that truth was always true, barring a change in scientific conditions.

Ancient Egyptians used some of the most disgusting remedies for illness imaginable.

Doctors prescribed smoking tobacco for respiratory ailments pre-20th-century.

None of this changed the fact that pure, fresh air and other non-injurious, natural treatments produced better results.

12 multiplied by 12 always equalled 144—even before anyone figured it out, and regardless of previous consensus or a lack thereof. :)

.
 
Ol' Barn said:
Steve, I'm not even sure I know what it means when someone says that doctrines are man-made or what it means to say that doctrines should be biblical. Are there no doctrines that originated in the mind of God?
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Both. Doctrine should be biblical AND they are man-made.
As I understand it, doctrines are humankind's way of codifying biblical truth. Thus man-made.
And since the UNDERSTANDINGS differ, so does the doctrine. IMHO

Ol' Barn said:
And I honestly don't know what consensus has to do with truth. In science there is often a lack of consensus for decades/centuries before the truth about a discipline is reached. But that truth was always true, barring a change in scientific conditions.
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Well, I am referring to doctrinal consensus.
Hopefully you are aware (of couse you are) that different denominations have different beliefs. (doctrines)
Do they all agree? (of course not) Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.

'
 
SteVen said:
Both. Doctrine should be biblical AND they are man-made.
As I understand it, doctrines are humankind's way of codifying biblical truth. Thus man-made.
And since the UNDERSTANDINGS differ, so does the doctrine. IMHO
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I'm afraid this doesn't clear up much of anything for me (I'm assuming that was your intention?). What role, if any, does the mind of God Himself play in forming correct teaching about any theological matter? Are we talking relativism, pluralism, or something else as a standard for biblical knowledge or are we just, in the words of Fred and Ginger "You say 'tomayto'; I say 'tomahto'; Oh, let's call the whole thing off?"

SteVen said:
Well, I am referring to doctrinal consensus.
Hopefully you are aware (of couse you are) that different denominations have different beliefs. (doctrines)
Do they all agree? (of course not) Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.
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They do not agree and the last thing I want to do is correct you, although I believe you're just using a figure of speech.

I'm really not following, though. Are you suggesting that the problem itself is, in fact, the solution?

Is theology somehow different than other sciences and somehow impossible to understand?

Even if it takes the appearing of Christ to straighten us all out, will what He tells us be man-made? And will He have to confess to leaving us behind in some gift that would have made us wise?

At this point, I confess I really don't know what we're doing, my friend. Help me out here. :)

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Waiting on Him said:
In my opinion about 80% of the Old Testament presents a god that isn’t compatible with the God that Jesus presented.
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The God of the Old Testament (Yahweh, the God and Father of the Messiah) is the God of the New Testament (Yahweh, the God and Father of the Messiah).

Paul said about Yahweh, “Behold the kindness and severity of God …” (Romans 11:22).
 
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