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Whom do you believe?

C

CherubRam

Guest
The Old Testament states that Yahwah is our Judge. The Old Testament also says Yahwah does not share His glory with any other.
Matt 28
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Glory also means worship.
The oldest text does not have the trinity formula in Matt 28:19.

John 5
41 “I do not accept glory from human beings,…


John 5:21
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.


Instructions from Yahshua to disregard any New Testament testimony from himself that elevates himself.
John 5:31
“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.


Acts 26:8
Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead?


2 Corinthians 1:9
Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.


In the Old Testament Yahwah states that He is The First And The Last, and that there is no other. And here we have Christ as The First and The Last.
Revelation 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead;


Revelation 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

The Catholics elevated Christ to elevate themselves, for to them their Pope is Christ.
 
CherubRam said:
The Old Testament states that Yahwah is our Judge. The Old Testament also says Yahwah does not share His glory with any other.
Matt 28
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
...
The Catholics elevated Christ to elevate themselves, for to them their Pope is Christ.
Click to expand...
Catholics or no Catholics, God gave all power in heaven and earth to Jesus Christ, and gave him the authority to judge.
 
CherubRam said:
The Old Testament states that Yahwah is our Judge. The Old Testament also says Yahwah does not share His glory with any other.
Matt 28
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Glory also means worship.
The oldest text does not have the trinity formula in Matt 28:19.

John 5
41 “I do not accept glory from human beings,…


John 5:21
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.


Instructions from Yahshua to disregard any New Testament testimony from himself that elevates himself.
John 5:31
“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.


Acts 26:8
Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead?


2 Corinthians 1:9
Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.


In the Old Testament Yahwah states that He is The First And The Last, and that there is no other. And here we have Christ as The First and The Last.
Revelation 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead;


Revelation 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

The Catholics elevated Christ to elevate themselves, for to them their Pope is Christ.
Click to expand...
I believe both the Father and the Son. They do not contradict each others words and their respective roles. Today the Son has 'the authority' where before it was solely in the hands of his Father. This new authority also enables him to possess the gavel of judgment when he returns to raised the dead to immortality and life eternal.

And there are two distinct meanings for the expression 'The first and the last': one for the Father as the one YHWH and there are no others gods besides him. And then the Son is 'The first and the last' as he died and then regenerated, as the 1st immortal birth of the new creation, of the future immortal believers in him and the Father.

And glory does not mean worship. In this context of your OP glory means at least immortality for the Son and future believers. The Son received and receives glory by being given 'all' (is limited in scope) authority in heaven and on the earth, and therefore the Father thus receives the ultimate glory as the only author and creator of new life, even of his Son and capitalizes on his glory from his actions.
 
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shroom said:
Catholics or no Catholics, God gave all power in heaven and earth to Jesus Christ, and gave him the authority to judge.
Click to expand...
Psalm 98:9
let them sing before (the Lord / Yahwah,) for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples with equity.

John 8:15
You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.

John 8:50
I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge.

John 12:47
“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Revelation 6:10
They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

Revelation 18:8
Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

Revelation 18:20
“Rejoice over her, you heavens! Rejoice, you people of God! Rejoice, apostles and prophets! For God has judged her with the judgment she imposed on you.”
 
I hear Christians say they want nothing to do with Yahwah, that they only want to worship Jesus.

Luke 4:8

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship (the Lord / Yahwah) your God and serve him only.’”

John 5:41
“I do not accept glory from human beings,
 
APAK said:
I believe both the Father and the Son. They do not contradict each others words and their respective roles. Today the Son has 'the authority' where before it was solely in the hands of his Father. This new authority also enables him to possess the gavel of judgment when he returns to raised the dead to immortality and life eternal.

And there are two distinct meanings for the expression 'The first and the last': one for the Father as the one YHWH and there are no others gods besides him. And then the Son is 'The first and the last' as he died and then regenerated, as the 1st immortal birth of the new creation, of the future immortal believers in him and the Father.

And glory does not mean worship. In this context of your OP glory means at least immortality for the Son and future believers. The Son received and receives glory by being given 'all' (is limited in scope) authority in heaven and on the earth, and therefore the Father thus receives the ultimate glory as the only author and creator of new life, even of his Son and capitalizes on his glory from his actions.
Click to expand...
The word "worship" may not belong in the bible, because it is a more modern day word. The word "worship" came about around the 12th or 13th century AD.

Most likely the words (pay tribute) should have been used.

(Pay tribute) also carries the meaning (honor.)

www.etymonline.com

worship | Etymology, origin and meaning of worship by etymonline

WORSHIP Meaning: "condition of being worthy, dignity, glory, distinction, honor, renown," from weorð "worthy" (see worth)… See definitions of worship.
www.etymonline.com www.etymonline.com
 
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