T
Ted T
Guest
My apology, in the theological sense, for the last 40 yrs or so for PCE theology is:
I present the verses I do which witness to our pre-conception existence, along with some others which I feel make a lot more sense when they're interpreted in light of this doctrine.
Now, being that hardly anyone has searched the Scriptures in light of the pre-conception view, these Scriptures have rarely been interpreted this way before in any commentary or discussion. Therefore, it stands to reason that such an exegesis of these Scriptures will be new and that it will be fairly unique, that is, that almost all the other interpretations of the same Scriptures will be different.
In other words, any verse that conveys the idea of pre-existence has rarely been interpreted this way before because almost every exegete automatically looks for a different interpretation when they read such an interpretation. This being the case, a mere list of Scriptures will not constitute proof of scriptural support for this doctrine but, to provide such proof, such a list will have to be accompanied by an in-depth exegesis of the said Scriptures.
Providing only a list of pertinent verses without the accompanying new exegesis would only tend to prove to its searchers that this doctrine had no scriptural support, simply because they would tend to interpret the Scriptures that supply proof of our pre-conception existence only in orthodox terms, in much the same way that everybody used to interpret the Scriptures regarding the Christ King.
My understanding of Christianity rests on personal hopes that:
1. GOD is good and can do no evil.
2. All evil is creature created by free will.
3. The effects of choosing evil upon ourselves must be in accord with our choices, enabled by GOD but not chosen by HIM.
This gives me the structure I use to answer questions...
Creation and the Fall:
GOD first created ALL the spirits in HIS image, that is, capable of being a suitable Bride for HIM, Isaiah 43:7, 21, with a free will with an equal ability and opportunity to choose to put their faith in HIM as their GOD and saviour or to reject HIM and HIS heavenly purpose. No one was created as sinful nor as never able to be HIS Bride.
When this created society matured, HE proclaimed to all HIS divinity and HIS purpose of the heavenly marriage with them, including the heavenly rewards and the dangers of hell and that salvation from sin was found only in the Son by faith, an unproven hope, in Him. HE promised anyone who put their faith, their unproven hope, in HIM and the Son would be elected, chosen, to be HIS heavenly Bride and would be predestined to be saved from all sin and those who rejected HIM by faith, ie, and unproven hope that HE was a liar and a false god, would be damned forever.
ELECTION AND PREDESTINATION:
Thus election was HIS promise to anyone who would put their free will faith in HIM and predestination was how HE expressed to HIS elect that they could trust how HIS promise would be fulfilled. Election and predestination did not CAUSE our fate to end in heaven but expressed the certainty of the fulfillment of HIS promise to us as HIS RESPONSE to our putting our faith in HIM as our GOD and Saviour if we should ever sin.
The response to HIS proclamation of HIS deity and the gospel of salvation, Colossians 1:23, separated all of creation into three groups: the holy elect, the eternally sinful reprobate and the sinful elect. The fall of some of the elect came about because some only accepted HIM so they could be free from the dangers of hell but were planning to then go their own way no matter what HE wanted from them.
- The holy elect put their full faith in HIM and chose to never sin in HIS sight.
- The eternally sinful decided put their faith, their unproven hope, in the idea HE was a liar and a false god driven by an evil psychotic megalomania, thereby sinning the unforgivable sin.
- The sinful elect put their faith in HIM as their GOD and saviour until HE gave them the promised election to salvation and then, safe for hell, they rebelled against HIS commands.
Since HE is a GOD who cannot abide evil and must destroy it as soon as possible, HIS first command was to set up the judgement day to come about. HE commanded all HIS elect to “come out from among the reprobate,” that is, to repudiate their friendships or even love for these who must be condemned because HE knew some were harbouring idolatrous thoughts about the reprobate that the judgement was too harsh, too unloving and too unnecessary to be accepted. Most elect complied, some didn’t, becoming enslaved to sin themselves, HIS sheep gone astray into sin, needing redemption. The next command was for HIS elect to then come out from among their elect but now sinful friends and to leave them to HIS mercy...which most accepted but some did not for love of a fallen elect.
By repeated calls for those not yet sinful to come out for among the sinners HE found the level of willingness to sin (ie, their lack of willingness to be holy) in every person in creation from Satan to the least sinful person in existence including the holy elect angels who never sinned.
Then the physical universe was created which proof of HIS divinity and power were clearly seen by all HIS creation, Job 28:7 and Romans 1:18-20, ended everyone’s free will decisions about these choices, setting our self chosen fates into motion.
Satan, his demonic angels and the fallen elect were all flung into Sheol in the centre of the earth, Revelation 12:4-9, to live together in the world as the best method of bringing to holiness HIS sinful elect, Matt 13:29-30, the parable of the weeds, especially considering Jesus’ explanation of the parable, Matt 13:36-39.
I present the verses I do which witness to our pre-conception existence, along with some others which I feel make a lot more sense when they're interpreted in light of this doctrine.
Now, being that hardly anyone has searched the Scriptures in light of the pre-conception view, these Scriptures have rarely been interpreted this way before in any commentary or discussion. Therefore, it stands to reason that such an exegesis of these Scriptures will be new and that it will be fairly unique, that is, that almost all the other interpretations of the same Scriptures will be different.
In other words, any verse that conveys the idea of pre-existence has rarely been interpreted this way before because almost every exegete automatically looks for a different interpretation when they read such an interpretation. This being the case, a mere list of Scriptures will not constitute proof of scriptural support for this doctrine but, to provide such proof, such a list will have to be accompanied by an in-depth exegesis of the said Scriptures.
Providing only a list of pertinent verses without the accompanying new exegesis would only tend to prove to its searchers that this doctrine had no scriptural support, simply because they would tend to interpret the Scriptures that supply proof of our pre-conception existence only in orthodox terms, in much the same way that everybody used to interpret the Scriptures regarding the Christ King.
My understanding of Christianity rests on personal hopes that:
1. GOD is good and can do no evil.
2. All evil is creature created by free will.
3. The effects of choosing evil upon ourselves must be in accord with our choices, enabled by GOD but not chosen by HIM.
This gives me the structure I use to answer questions...
Creation and the Fall:
GOD first created ALL the spirits in HIS image, that is, capable of being a suitable Bride for HIM, Isaiah 43:7, 21, with a free will with an equal ability and opportunity to choose to put their faith in HIM as their GOD and saviour or to reject HIM and HIS heavenly purpose. No one was created as sinful nor as never able to be HIS Bride.
When this created society matured, HE proclaimed to all HIS divinity and HIS purpose of the heavenly marriage with them, including the heavenly rewards and the dangers of hell and that salvation from sin was found only in the Son by faith, an unproven hope, in Him. HE promised anyone who put their faith, their unproven hope, in HIM and the Son would be elected, chosen, to be HIS heavenly Bride and would be predestined to be saved from all sin and those who rejected HIM by faith, ie, and unproven hope that HE was a liar and a false god, would be damned forever.
ELECTION AND PREDESTINATION:
Thus election was HIS promise to anyone who would put their free will faith in HIM and predestination was how HE expressed to HIS elect that they could trust how HIS promise would be fulfilled. Election and predestination did not CAUSE our fate to end in heaven but expressed the certainty of the fulfillment of HIS promise to us as HIS RESPONSE to our putting our faith in HIM as our GOD and Saviour if we should ever sin.
The response to HIS proclamation of HIS deity and the gospel of salvation, Colossians 1:23, separated all of creation into three groups: the holy elect, the eternally sinful reprobate and the sinful elect. The fall of some of the elect came about because some only accepted HIM so they could be free from the dangers of hell but were planning to then go their own way no matter what HE wanted from them.
- The holy elect put their full faith in HIM and chose to never sin in HIS sight.
- The eternally sinful decided put their faith, their unproven hope, in the idea HE was a liar and a false god driven by an evil psychotic megalomania, thereby sinning the unforgivable sin.
- The sinful elect put their faith in HIM as their GOD and saviour until HE gave them the promised election to salvation and then, safe for hell, they rebelled against HIS commands.
Since HE is a GOD who cannot abide evil and must destroy it as soon as possible, HIS first command was to set up the judgement day to come about. HE commanded all HIS elect to “come out from among the reprobate,” that is, to repudiate their friendships or even love for these who must be condemned because HE knew some were harbouring idolatrous thoughts about the reprobate that the judgement was too harsh, too unloving and too unnecessary to be accepted. Most elect complied, some didn’t, becoming enslaved to sin themselves, HIS sheep gone astray into sin, needing redemption. The next command was for HIS elect to then come out from among their elect but now sinful friends and to leave them to HIS mercy...which most accepted but some did not for love of a fallen elect.
By repeated calls for those not yet sinful to come out for among the sinners HE found the level of willingness to sin (ie, their lack of willingness to be holy) in every person in creation from Satan to the least sinful person in existence including the holy elect angels who never sinned.
Then the physical universe was created which proof of HIS divinity and power were clearly seen by all HIS creation, Job 28:7 and Romans 1:18-20, ended everyone’s free will decisions about these choices, setting our self chosen fates into motion.
Satan, his demonic angels and the fallen elect were all flung into Sheol in the centre of the earth, Revelation 12:4-9, to live together in the world as the best method of bringing to holiness HIS sinful elect, Matt 13:29-30, the parable of the weeds, especially considering Jesus’ explanation of the parable, Matt 13:36-39.
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