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Free Will and The Soul

M

Manonfire63

Guest
Around the media, how does someone use the term "The Soul?" There may be a lot of context and understanding there that people shrug off. To understand The Soul, someone may be coming into an understanding of God where God is self evident. They may be coming into an understanding of exorcism. There is a bit of a science to it.

A lot of people confuse Soul and Spirits. As a basis to start the discussion, we may need some common ground.

Post: "Discovering the Soul" on TheologyForums.com

You read "Discovering The Soul" to some kind of understanding. A soul is a person. Given the King of Salem had 50 Souls, then he had 50 servants. He had 50 people that may have termed themselves "A Servant of the King of Salem." Who is making many decisions? The King of Salem. A soul is a person. There is a freewill element in being free. Was someone being forced to serve the King of Salem, or was someone choosing to? In Batman shows, Alfred is a Servant, serving the house of Wayne. Alfred chose to be there. There is nothing wrong with serving. The Son of Man comes to serve. (Matthew 20:28)

How many TV Shows or movies can you think of where the villain was trying to take away free will?

- From "The Lord of the Rings," the Human Kings who bore their rings, they lost their souls. They lost free will.
- In the DC Universe, the character Darkseid worked to enslave, and take away free will.
- In Marvel Comics, someone like The Winter Soldier, he went through mental reconditioning to where he ended up "obeying" Soviet Authority, or giving into.
- Someone who was being Demonically Oppressed may have been having uncharacteristic thoughts that they were suppressing.
- Towards understanding possession, someone's thoughts may have been ended up aligned with something not God.

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 Corinthains 10:5)
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Part of spiritual warfare has been a war of words, a war of thoughts. How does man perceive himself? How does man perceive God? No is forced to serve God. People choose God. Coming into God, and God's love, someone heart and mind is refreshed.


What does it mean "Someone Sold Their Soul?" Is that even a thing? You read "Discovering the Soul?" Given someone was a musician, and the signed a record contract, who is making the decisions? The record company, they may have, in the contract, gained the power to say which songs someone sings, where they sing them, what events they go to, and many other things. Someone may have signed away their free will. Someone signing a Enlistment contract in the military, they may have been giving authority to the US Government in a similar way. Who was someone giving their authority over to and why? Was there a Mysticism, an Occult Mysticism, around a record company? Authority works in particular ways. The Spirit of God is a teacher and a councilor.

Food for thought for tonight.
 
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It would seem some element of 'free will' would exist in any conscious soul, no matter what degree of influence or conditioning it might be under. So there may be different levels and degrees of freedom of mind in any sentient being what has a spirit spark of the Creator in it who is actually a real human soul in constitution, having potential for eternal life/immortality.

Now concerning an android, cyborg, drone or some synthetic A.I. creature or entity, we might question if such an entity has a 'soul', but that perhaps is another subject :)

In any case,....the Creator/creators have given human souls 'free will', or that freedom of choice is already innate to the soul, so each individual has a certain autonomy and sovereignty of free will, as far as the choices it makes that affects its own conditions and ultimate destiny. To this, not even 'God' can coerce or force an individual to do anything, including choosing eternal life or salvation. Free will works with-in divine providence of course, but the choice for life or death in their final potentials and possibilities is up to each individual. This renders 'hyper-calvinism' null and void, but again another subject ;)


Injoy!


-------------o
 
There may be consequences for actions. The Lord is a shepherd. God made promises to the Hebrew people. The King of Babylon may have been given authority to bring God's Judgement on Judah. Given the King of Babylon was oppressing the Hebrews, God's Judgement may have fallen on Babylon. The Lord is a Shepherd. (Psalms 23) Authority works in particular ways.


Now concerning an android, cyborg, drone or some synthetic A.I. creature or entity, we might question if such an entity has a 'soul', but that perhaps is another subject :)
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That gets into something complicated. What is the difference between The Soul and The Spirit of Man? The Soul, and Spirit of Man, as Breath or The Breath of Life.
 
What exactly was driving someone to make an AI? Some of that gets into transhumanism. Some people get addicted to not just tattoos.....to body improvement. Where does that stop? There is a transhumanist element in there, and a spirit. Someone like Luke Skywalker, he lost his hand, and got a prosthetic. That is awesome. Would people get addicted to replacing body parts or enhancing themselves like some people have been addicted to "body improvement." There has been a spirit there. What has driven people towards developing AI? A rejection of God? A rejection of marriage and family? A need to create in a "God Complex?"

The Nazis and the Japaneses during World War II were social darwinists. They conducted medical experiments that many people cringe at today. We may be able to say that certain avenues in science may need to be avoided. What does it mean to be human? Is man just an animal, or is man special, made in the image of God?
 
What do spirits do? They effect motivations. Outside of God, someone may have been a slave. A slave to emotion. A slave to ego. They may have had hubris that made them blind and deaf. Everyone may have been in some form of possession at some point. In a water baptism, given someone was choosing God with all their heart and soul and strength and mind, they may have been exorcised. They were starting new.


Given someone had a spirit, their character may have formed or molded around it, their soul. Common sense comes from God. Were leaders of a nation, were they making bad decisions? It may have been do to a rejection of God, and being "Given over to." (Romans 1:18-25) Spirits may have sat in someone subconscious or shadow. They were not aware. Given someone had ears to hear, and eyes to see, they may have become more aware through God.

People with the Spirit of God say "Jesus Christ is The Lord." Their character may have been molded around God's Holy Spirit. They tend to think about God a lot, and be drawn to Godly activities.
 
Manonfire63 said:
What do spirits do? They effect motivations. Outside of God, someone may have been a slave. A slave to emotion. A slave to ego. They may have had hubris that made them blind and deaf. Everyone may have been in some form of possession at some point. In a water baptism, given someone was choosing God with all their heart and soul and strength and mind, they may have been exorcised. They were starting new.


Given someone had a spirit, their character may have formed or molded around it, their soul. Common sense comes from God. Were leaders of a nation, were they making bad decisions? It may have been do to a rejection of God, and being "Given over to." (Romans 1:18-25) Spirits may have sat in someone subconscious or shadow. They were not aware. Given someone had ears to hear, and eyes to see, they may have become more aware through God.

People with the Spirit of God say "Jesus Christ is The Lord." Their character may have been molded around God's Holy Spirit. They tend to think about God a lot, and be drawn to Godly activities.
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Interesting.
 
freelight said:
--------o

It would seem some element of 'free will' would exist in any conscious soul, no matter what degree of influence or conditioning it might be under. So there may be different levels and degrees of freedom of mind in any sentient being what has a spirit spark of the Creator in it who is actually a real human soul in constitution, having potential for eternal life/immortality.

Now concerning an android, cyborg, drone or some synthetic A.I. creature or entity, we might question if such an entity has a 'soul', but that perhaps is another subject :)

In any case,....the Creator/creators have given human souls 'free will', or that freedom of choice is already innate to the soul, so each individual has a certain autonomy and sovereignty of free will, as far as the choices it makes that affects its own conditions and ultimate destiny. To this, not even 'God' can coerce or force an individual to do anything, including choosing eternal life or salvation. Free will works with-in divine providence of course, but the choice for life or death in their final potentials and possibilities is up to each individual. This renders 'hyper-calvinism' null and void, but again another subject ;)


Injoy!


-------------o
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And its external to in-joy: en-joy!
:)
 
Eyes to see, and ears to hear, are a major theme in the Bible. (Ezekiel 12:2)(Proverbs 20:12)(Isaiah 42:7)(Matthew 13:15-17) Having eyes to see, and ears to hear may be related to some of the topics brought up here. The question is, how does someone get there?

Pray. Someone should pray. The Holy Ghost is a teacher and a councilor. Does that mean someone was hearing a voice? Like being schizo?

Say "I don't know."

Say "I don't care."

Who was more right? Catholics? Orthodox? Protestants? I don't know. I don't care. Someone seeks God with all their heart and soul and strength and mind. Someone who doesn't know or care, they may be teachable. Given someone is growing in faith, they may be aligning themselves with the Prophets. Someone like Apostle Paul, prior to there being a New Testament, he taught from The Book of Isaiah showing prophecy was fulfilled through Jesus. He had The Holy Ghost. Given someone doesn't know nor care between the major denominations, surely one was "More right?" Possibly. God's plan is God's Kingdom. That may mean the greater Church comes back together at some point. To see things more as God sees them, someone may need to let go. The Greater Church may come back together through The Holy Ghost.


Someone with a tradition, may have been speaking from tradition, or their own mind in an academic sense. Christianity is traditional. Was the tradition right, or did something go wrong? God knows. Was there a big divide in a lot of Churches over politics? That would be a Spiritual Crisis. (Philippians 2:2) There is a difference between having a tradition and faith. Faith starts with belief. Faith is a journey. A journey of getting to know God in a personal relationship. An academic person in a tradition.........some of them may have been more right, but they may have just been going through the motions at best? God's plan is God's Kingdom, and one of the ways we love God is by "Doing."
 
Manonfire63 said:
Who was more right? Catholics? Orthodox? Protestants? I don't know. I don't care. Someone seeks God with all their heart and soul and strength and mind. Someone who doesn't know or care, they may be teachable.
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I like this, but through study have come to even more understanding about the existence of all these "Religions of this world". I think you are spot on that folks who have adopted the religious philosophy and traditions of this world's religions, face a much harder time Seeking God outside their religious bubble. It's much easier for a non-believer to see the hypocrisy of this world's religions, than for those who are snared by them. Sadly, many folks are turned away from God because of their hypocrisy, and as it turns out, this was not new.

Ez. 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Paul recognized this as well.

Rom. 2: 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

In my personal case, my dad didn't believe in the God of the Bible, but he owned a bar and was judged and ridiculed by all the Baptist's and AOG members in our little town because he was "sinner", which was true. But because he owned the bar, he saw what these same holier than thou "Saved by the blood of Jesus" were doing in the dark of night. How they screwed people in business deals, and lusted after each others wives and lives when they thought no one was looking. As a result of their traditions and lifestyles, my dad was turned off towards God and His existence.

My Mom was a devout AOG member, who was blind to what my dad and I witnessed, and eventually divorced him.

It wasn't until I had a child of my own years later, that I began to think about life and God again. It wasn't her fault I was her dad, and I felt an overwhelming urge to SEEK and try to understand this whole God thing, for her benefit. I already knew if God existed, HE didn't exist in one or any of the smorgasbord of religious franchises and business of this world, all competing for members without which their religious business could not survive.

I started studying God's Word on my own, and can still remember how astonished I was in the difference between the teaching in the church Mom made me go to, and what the Scriptures actually said. That was 33 years ago now. I have since met several men, whose studies brought them to the same conclusion.

In the Law and Prophets there is a promise of God made to His People.

Judges 2: 21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died: 22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers (Abraham Isaac and Jacob) did keep it, or not.

I believe these many religious franchises and businesses, and their religious philosophy and traditions, are what the "nations" symbolically represent.

I am so encouraged to see another who has perhaps also figured this out. Thanks for posting.
 
Studyman said:
I like this, but through study have come to even more understanding about the existence of all these "Religions of this world". I think you are spot on that folks who have adopted the religious philosophy and traditions of this world's religions, face a much harder time Seeking God outside their religious bubble. It's much easier for a non-believer to see the hypocrisy of this world's religions, than for those who are snared by them. Sadly, many folks are turned away from God because of their hypocrisy, and as it turns out, this was not new.

Ez. 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Paul recognized this as well.

Rom. 2: 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

In my personal case, my dad didn't believe in the God of the Bible, but he owned a bar and was judged and ridiculed by all the Baptist's and AOG members in our little town because he was "sinner", which was true. But because he owned the bar, he saw what these same holier than thou "Saved by the blood of Jesus" were doing in the dark of night. How they screwed people in business deals, and lusted after each others wives and lives when they thought no one was looking. As a result of their traditions and lifestyles, my dad was turned off towards God and His existence.

My Mom was a devout AOG member, who was blind to what my dad and I witnessed, and eventually divorced him.

It wasn't until I had a child of my own years later, that I began to think about life and God again. It wasn't her fault I was her dad, and I felt an overwhelming urge to SEEK and try to understand this whole God thing, for her benefit. I already knew if God existed, HE didn't exist in one or any of the smorgasbord of religious franchises and business of this world, all competing for members without which their religious business could not survive.

I started studying God's Word on my own, and can still remember how astonished I was in the difference between the teaching in the church Mom made me go to, and what the Scriptures actually said. That was 33 years ago now. I have since met several men, whose studies brought them to the same conclusion.

In the Law and Prophets there is a promise of God made to His People.

Judges 2: 21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died: 22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers (Abraham Isaac and Jacob) did keep it, or not.

I believe these many religious franchises and businesses, and their religious philosophy and traditions, are what the "nations" symbolically represent.

I am so encouraged to see another who has perhaps also figured this out. Thanks for posting.
Click to expand...

I was raised Protestant Non-Denominational. I received a calling from God around the age of 30. (Luke 3:23) Growing in faith, and an understanding of the spiritual, it brought me closer to some traditional Catholics or Orthodox. Not 100%. Closer in such a way that I had a lot less in common with where I had been previously as a life long Christian. I was aligning myself with the Prophets of the Bible, and working to grow in faith with God. The spiritual works in particular ways. Working to understand The Soul and Spirits through God, someone may be coming into objectivity.

How may major theological issue between denominations be worked out? Through God's Holy Spirit. That is not to say that someone of a major denomination was not of God's Holy Spirit prior to.........Christians are to be Law Abiding. Different denominations may have had a Hierarchy, and set doctrines and dogmas. Given someone is a one denomination or the other, they should follow the rules. There may have been reasons for them. God, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, how does he judge? To see more as God sees, someone may have had to be shepherded outside some hierarchies. Someone may need to be in a "No Man's Land" of faith. I don't know that is for everyone. To resolve certain disputes, we need men who were proven full of God's Holy Spirit. Given some tribulations, that may become more easier to see.

At times, the wrong things may have been institutionalized.
 
What is a "No Man's Land" of Faith? No Man's Land was the area between trenches during WWI. Death may have been everywhere. With nothing else, someone may be holding tight to God. They are cleaved unto.

Bible Concordance: "To Cleave"
 
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